more ramblings from Big Rob for your viewing pleasure;

ok guys, whats the difference between a deluxe, twin reverb, and a super, anything besides the wattage and speakers? brain fart probably, whats the biggest differences in the amps they made pre-cbs and during cbs ect ect.

if i was going to get one which would i get? i just really dont know where to start at with fender amplification, i've owned a hot rod deville a while back but I didn't like anything about it.

Harsh overdrive, and the clean was not like the other fenders, I'm not a bassman or hotrod fan at all.

i just need some insights. ive been playing my zendrive through a twin reverb at guitar center and i just cant stop, its making me druel, (hard to believe coming from someone whos amp sounds like razorblades) the jcm900 actully sounds decent fully dimed but i cant get it that loud on stage. ive thought seriously about just selling my jcm900 and the 1960b to get one or to get most of one paid i dont know, if i do get to go to nashville it would make more sense to have a fender, i just cant get enough of that zd/fender tone...its sick, and i really did wipe druel off my face while i was playing it.

i always hear Robben Ford talking about his Fender Twin, as in "The Twin" i believe, i dont know how that differs from the other ones tubes or speakers ect, all insights welcome.

Go play a bunch of them and see what you like. There is so much variation in some of the old ones that you are just going to have to find the one that speaks to you. A deluxe doesn't have enough clean headroom for me. A twin is too big for me and has too much clean headroom. Vibroverbs, vibroluxes, supers, concerts, and pro reverbs are all good options. They all sound different. Try and buy!

I think "The Twin" was and amp fender made in the eighties: http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/twin_redknob.html
Don't know if this is what RF is talking about.

Some Fender amps get weird with certain guitars. What kind of guitar are you using? I usually play Teles. Darker or more midrangy guitars can be troublesome.

I own a Fender Vibroverb and a Deville. The vibroverb has better tone but the Deville is my road amp. In other words, it's expendable. It gives me a good clean platform that I can use pedals with.

I love a good Twin - any version. In my experience, they LOVE pedals - especially the 'mid' accentuated o.d.'s like a Zen. They are loud, they can be overly bright and yes, pretty freakin' heavy. A 70's SF in decent condition (or even one of the '65 re-issues) will probably do you well and they're still reasonably priced. The re-issues can be had cheap.
RF plays pretty decent sized venues and he's 'loud'. He's allowed to be because it's his band and he's Robben Ford. The 'red-knob' twins are 90's vintage (maybe late 80's?) and are definitely "present" ... as in loud and prescent.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-The-Twin-212-Red-knob-combo-...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

now thats what i call an affordable amp...that robben ford loves! my gosh..but 100 pounds!? well guess my backs still young, i cant afford this one right now but it seems like a good value and ill bet there will be more for that price.

your right ken ive seen good prices on the 65 ri too.

but now that i think about it if i saved for a "The twin" i dont think id have to drop my 1960b which i dont want to do because later on i want a great marshall style head, i could sell the jcm900 pretty easy around here, lots of punk rockers that swear by the high gain for there style of music, oh man im tempted now.

i cant recall in gc how many people ive said i just play a jcm900 i cant stand, and most replys aww man i love that amp! its hard to believe how many people do not have the knowledge of tone we gear nuts aquire from each other, there was alot i didnt know before i came to toyz, now i dream about tone, day dream about tone, think about tone at work, think about tone when im taking a dump, musiciansfriend and vintage guitar mag right next to the toilet....its getting weird

I had one of those Paul Rivera-designed 80's Twins. After doing several hundred gigs on it, I finally figured out that I didn't really get on with it, but that's just me. I also had a blackface '65 Twin for a while; lush, shimmering cleans, but way too much amp for my purposes, and I certainly don't have the back for it anymore.

Whenever I gig a brown or black Deluxe, I pair it with either the other Deluxe or a VOX AC15. One of those amps is never enough for me, but two small amps with the gains backed down is pretty cool, and the sound is dispersed in a way that I can get along with on the bandstand. I'm not one of those guys that can mic a Princeton at a show.

A Super is pretty good middle ground, but I've only ever played BF and SF models, and the high end presence is too much for my approach as a single amp.

I have a Pro Jr. that I mostly use at a teaching studio, but I occasionally use it for recording slide guitar tracks. As dimed, it sounds pretty cool in this respect, but it's not a gigging amp for me.

As for being faced with the dilemma of having "too much amp" at a gig, I'm way better off with a brown or a tweed than with a blackface or silverface at lower volumes, and there's probably something about the compression. I'd rather run a tweed Bassman at low voumes than a silver Super.

The amp that I've gigged the most since the early 90's is a PCB '63 reissue Vibroverb, and I have two of them currently. Of all the amps I've owned, this is the one that never seems to be too little or too much amp at a variety of indoor and outdoor venues. It sounds cool at low volumes, growls when pushed, and adores a variety of gain stomps.

Rob,

We should drive to Memphis together, soon. We could go to my friend's place, and try out some of his amps. He's got about 150 (literally) sitting in his shop, at any one time. And you could try them, and tell him what you want.

Don't get a Red Knob Twin!!!! So what that RF can make it sound good. He can make a water logged Crate amp sound good. I'd take your JCM 900 over that Twin anyday.

I'd pass on the Hot Rod series as well.

Check out some silverface tube stuff. They are handwired and fairly easy to work on. They can still be found for decent prices too. Try a Deluxe Reverb, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, and Twin Reverb (no master volume please!) You'll get an idea of sounds and weight. Go from there.

H

A silverface Pro Reverb is really hard to beat from a price/performance standpoint, although you need to get the 40-45watt one and not the later 70 watter. I have a little collection of silverface fenders and the Pro Reverb is the one I play live.

ive played a silverface pro reverb (a 1975 model i believe with the original tubes)that thing was sweet sounding...unfortunately they sold it as fast as they got it in. ive played a couple of older silverface models before that but at the time i wasnt into fender tone. i wish i had messed around a bit more with those.

Jeff we'll talk wednesday about memphis id love that.

i dont know how good that ceriatone overtone special sounds good clean, but thats still a possibility as well.

This is a good article from Gries on Blackface:

http://www.griesamps.com/id13.html

While I too hate the 'overdrive' on the Hot Rod Series and I much prefer the 4x10 version if given a choice, I find the Hot Rods still feel and sound 'close enough' to a blackface amp to me when set clean--as do most or all of the blackface reissues, and my 60s Super and my 70s champ etc etc.

Side by side the subtle and significant differences are clear, sure. I like blackface Super Reverbs most myself, even prefer normal channels ususally, blah blah. But the point is, these days, when I plug in to any (blackface-type) fender set clean, with my own guitar, after I set the EQ, I ususally think "sounds good, sounds like me" and play on. Others swear by only one model.

They do all sound a bit different, but to me they're all in the same ballpark sonically, and really all have a very similar 'feel' when clean. I'm not a big fan of a 1x12 in any amp, but deluxes old and new still have it. And I notice when I play a reissue Super I have the treble knob a lot lower than on my hot-biased alnico-speakered vintage Super, as it was naturally brigter, but tweaked by ear and less by knob position, it too was in the same sonic and feel area.

I never use bright switch, so the Deluxes (which, if I recall, have a hard wired bright cap) arent my preference espcailly with dirt, I prefer normal channel, and dislike playing with a champ's 1x8, but even with that they all feel similar to me. Otherwise the speakers then shape the inherent frequency response, espcially with dirt. A dirt pedal like the Zen will help reveal differences between any two blackface type amps even more fully than when clean...When I got my Super I was plugging in and out of about six vintage fender models, and that's when I discovered how especially cool a super could be.

But if you really love the twin and hate the hotrod straight clean that much, I'd say, try a Super, and try a Deluxe or a Princeton (which to me has the most distinct voice of the blackface bunch), and see what you think between them, especially with the Zen. MAybe you just like Twins--but on paper the circuits truly are pretty much the same, so you have to try them all and hear them yourself.

That new Dr. Z blackface type amp might be a good choice, given that Z tends to make his amps pedal-friendly--worth a try. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Headshot LLC:
Don't get a Red Knob Twin!!!! So what that RF can make it sound good. He can make a water logged Crate amp sound good. I'd take your JCM 900 over that Twin anyday.

I'd pass on the Hot Rod series as well.

Check out some silverface tube stuff. They are handwired and fairly easy to work on. They can still be found for decent prices too. Try a Deluxe Reverb, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, and Twin Reverb (no master volume please!) You'll get an idea of sounds and weight. Go from there.

H

There are more than a few people I've seen that make Red Knobbers sound good.

Yeah, I use red knob twins all the time, same with '65 re-issues and re-issue deluxes - standard "back-line". I've figured out how to make them work for me. I will re-emphasize though ... I am allowed to turn them up.
(Sometimes I put thick cardboard circles, about the diameter of a coffee can, on the grill directly over the center of the speakers. Old trick to cut the directionality of the ice picky highs beamed at the audience or your lead singer. Weber makes these things called 'beam blockers' that are permanent attachments to your speakers that do the same thing.)

I've got a '65 reissue Twin that I've been gigging for years now. It's too loud and too heavy, for sure, but I deal with it because I love the full, rich clean headroom of it. The Beam Blockers Ken mentioned above work great. A power attenuator and a road case with wheels make the other issues less of a problem (other than the dead lift in and out of the car - get the singer to help, he's probably not doing anything anyway!).

That said, I'm seriously considering a reissue Deluxe or something for small stages or quiet gigs like weddings etc. Not sure if the Deluxe would be enough amp or not; I'd like to try one first.