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i've never heard about changing capacitors in guitars to change (improve) tone. is there really a noticable difference? fill me in.

Consider this: in guitar electronics, the filter cap simply bleeds highs to ground. The signal that goes through the cap goes to ground and not to your amp. That's plain and simple and by design and anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about. Does changing caps affect tone? Certainly. But I feel it has more to do with the value of the cap, which will affect the frequency repsonse, than the construction of the cap. When I asked the same question about a year or so ago, most if not all of the electronics gurus who hang our here felt the same way.

You'll get about as many opinions on this as you will on the proper way to treat a ebony or rosewood fingerboard.

GuitArtMan is correct. Caps in a guitar tone circuit simple bleed treble to ground and the material used is insignificant. Regardless of construction method and materials, if you had several different types of caps all that tested to the same tolerance, you would hear no difference in tone because each would affect the signal in the same manner. And since the portion of the signal it's actually handling simply bleeds to ground, that means the portion it COULD be affecting (tonally) is not even going to your amp.

It is my opinion that people who sell tone caps for a guitar circuit and claim they sound better than another type or brand are either stupid themselves or they are just trying to cash in on the ignorance of others who have even less knowledge about these things. It's just one more example of greed, ignorance and the internet teaming up to create a myth. The really funny part is that I have read numerous accounts of people who swear they heard an improvement in their tone when they swapped out for Hovlands or the capacitor du jour. This is why very little of what I read about "tone" and gear from most people is something I can take seriously. There are far too many people out there who develop their notions of tone and gear from what they read, not what they hear - or in this case, what they DON'T hear.

Well I have no personal fact to back it up, but I can believe that different TYPES of caps, and especially different values can make a difference. This is a experiment I plan on trying in the very near future so I can make my own judgements.

I wonder though... won't it only make a difference if you actually use your guitars tone control?? Isn't having it full up, not even using the cap?? I can honestly say I NEVER use the tone knob on any of my guitars....just haven't had any need to.

What frustrates me, is people that buy into "hype" but have never tried the things they talk about. So many people say this or that is "better" but have yet to even try for themselves. If you haven't tried "it"... I don't wanna hear about it.

H

I think these guys are right on the money. The value of the caps (and pots, too), is the important thing. Also the wiring layout.
Here's some cool Strat ideas:
1. Replace your 5 way switch, with a 3 way. Wire your neck and bridge pickups like a Tele. Now the unused tone control can be wired directly to the middle pickup, as a volume control. You can now use your neck and bridge pickup together (very cool, open sounding!). Or, turn up the new volume, and get all 3 pickups together. You can also use the 2 volumes to blend in various pickup combinations.
2. If your guitar has "dark" or muddy pickups, you can change the pot values. Try replacing 500k with 250k. Or if you have 250k, try 1 meg. These new pot values will give you more high end. Also, the 1 meg option seems to give you more bass "headroom". Clearer, and fuller.
3. For about $5.00, you can get a Torres mid cut. This is a great, versatile tool. Wire one tone control as a master tone. The other is a master also. It has the mid cut. You can control not only mid levels, but the mid response from the guitar. A strat can get really acoustic-like response. Also, you can get a lot of cool new tones from your amp. VERY HIP!
To get even more cool options, put the mid cut on a push-push pot. that way you can have it preset, and smack it on! Almost like channel switching. I haven't tried this on a Tele, or LP yet. If anyone does, let us know how you like it.
A good high quality selector switch, and pots are a good idea. They don't cost much, and while the guitar is already on the operating table....

Headshot:

You just illustrated my point.

People know that caps can and do affect tone in other applications. But that is because the signal passes through them, they work their magic and the resulting tone remains in the audible signal. That is NOT true of a cap on a tone pot in a guitar.

As I said above, if you could test 5 caps all of different composition but that all spec to the same value (say .047), they will all affect the tone in the exact same manner and there will be no difference in this application.

Test if you must, but all you need to do is look at a schematic and trace the cap's grounding. You can't "hear" what is not there.

Swain,

I agree. If you aren't using high quality pots, switches, and good wiring.... don't mess with the caps. Get the other stuff replaced first. I think that would make more of a sonic difference, similar to switching from a crappy store brand cable, to a George L's or similar.

H

quote:

Originally posted by Tone Dog:
Headshot:

Test if you must, but all you need to do is look at a schematic and trace the cap's grounding. You can't "hear" what is not there.

Well... for only a few bucks, it would be a cheap test to do...

But again, I wonder if it has ANY affect on people who don't even use the tone knob?? What if I just changed out values, and not even turned the tone knob? That might be another fun experiment.

Like I said before... I'd rather try it for myself, and then I can "back up" my findings, whatever they may or may not be.

H

Yeah, just having a tone cap in the circuit does seem to help tailor the high end. Seems to mellow it out.
I find that the harsh ice pick high end people talk about, is usually coming from the pickups. Not the amp.
You can experiment with turning your amps' treble all the way up, and your guitars' tone all the way down. Then just bring up the guitars' tone until you find the sweet spot. This will give you a whole other world of tones from your rig. This is something that works especially well in a band setting.
Also, if you need to cut through more, just goose up the guitars' tone pot for more high end. Yoy won't have to play the "volume war"
with the sound guy. The band's mix will still sound good. You'll just cut through better.

I like the "Delta Tone" control on my tele. When it's all the way up, the cap is completely bypassed.

quote:

I wonder though... won't it only make a difference if you actually use your guitars tone control?? Isn't having it full up, not even using the cap?? I can honestly say I NEVER use the tone knob on any of my guitars....just haven't had any need to.

I believe it still makes a very small difference. Some put nail polish on the trace so when it is full up it disconnects the Tone pot and cap from the circuit so it is like not having a Tone pot at all. It makes it brighter without the pot loading down the circuit.
But yeah for the most part if you don't use your tone control then the Tone caps won't make much of a difference. I personally run my Tone controls wide open.

Parts Tolerances.....

pffft, who the fuck uses their tone knob!!! =p

quote:

Originally posted by F1sh:
pffft, who the fuck uses their tone knob!!! =p

LMAO Sounds like a sweet slogan for ya f1sh.. That's funny shit!

AH The great debate...well in the interest of finding out...I bought some Jensen...paper, foil and oil...Hovland (music caps)...Orange drops and some el cheapo caps. and spent an afternoon changing em out...my conclusioin was that tonally they make no difference what so ever...you can hear the differenence in different values but not as great as I thought it would be and only when rolling off your tone control...

the biggest difference was the taper in how the tone was rolled off...

But since I have never touched my tone knob in some 40+ years of playin I now have a bag full of caps...

Chow,
Seegs

quote:

But again, I wonder if it has ANY affect on people who don't even use the tone knob??

Sure does! A pot on 10 still has some bleed thru, so some treble will still go thru the cap.
I've got Orange drops in both of my LPs.
Did an experiment using test leads (a wire w/ alligator clips @ each end) & swapping stock caps w/ ODs. There is a difference. Subtle but it is there.