Hey everybody...

I'm just in the middle of setting up my first board in about five or six years, and I wanted any advice you would care to give. So far, what I have is (in order):

BJF Honey Bee
BJF Baby Blue
Boss TU-2
Demeter COMP-1 Compulator
HAO Rust Booster
Line 6 MM4 (for trem, Leslie, and vibrato)
Line 6 DL$ (fast and slow tape echoes)

Would you put the clean boost before or after mod/delay? Also, any comments on order of ODs/comp/boost would be great.

Also, for those of you with both the Honey Bee and Baby Blue - how are you setting them? I have the HB at volume 3:00, nature 10:00, and drive maxed, and the BBOD at volume maxed, treble 2:00, and drive 9:00. I'm really looking to maximize the differences between the Honey Bee's small amp squishiness and the Baby Blue's more naturalistic sweet drive.

Any thoughts would be appreciated...

M

I would put the clean boost after the delay/mod.

My suggestion:
Comp
OD's
Mod
Delay
Boost

Personally, I would not put that tuner in the chain, big suckage of tone.

Actually, the board sounds way better with the tuner in. Certainly not as "transparent," but an improvement nonetheless.

You may want to try the comp after the OD's as well...I know of some guys who do that.

Umm...the comp is after the OD's. What am I missing?

M

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Originally posted by Monster Mike Welch:
Umm...the comp is after the OD's. What am I missing?

M

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Ooops...sorry. I forgot that was your current order - DUH! I would give it try before the OD's, I think that is the most common arrangement.

I would probably switch the rustdriver and comp....Its all subjective but I personally don't like how comp sounds before any od/distortion. Lends an unpleasent coloration to the od for me-comp doesn't seem as intrusive when plugged in after the ods. Honestly I would tend to line it up the same way other then that.....For od's i tend to line up the most over the top one first; the lighter ones second/third . Stacking od's seems to work better for me when I do it that way...Looks like a nice little board btw.

Well depends on the comp too - the pale Green is great before ODs, others like the Ross style ones can be fine after...


One note, the Honey Bee is about the only pedal that works well as a boost BEFORE the Baby Blue, usually the BBOD doenst take a boosting well (well it gets snarly which can be cool too but not always....) so try it both ways...

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Originally posted by Monster Mike Welch:
Actually, the board sounds way better with the tuner in. Certainly not as "transparent," but an improvement nonetheless.

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I run my tuner(Tu2 or Korg DT-7) first...on an A/B pedal as even though it is slight there is high end loss and I actually find it more accurate when it gets the guitar signal first...and I agree it definitly sounds better with the tuner in line...cause I'm in tune ...

I have a PGC and run it first in line and it sounds great there as it helps to boost...even and smooth out my drive boxes just a bit so that they sit better and it seems to retain the character of each dirt pedal better...when I run my comp after the dirt boxes it seemed to have more influence on how my drive boxes sounded and made them sound a bit similar...I also run my Red Rooster booster after my dirt boxes and before my reverb pedal...

Chow,
Seegs

I used to run my comp after my OD's, based on the notion that a compressor in front of an overdrive would lessen the clean/dirty dynamics aspect of the pedal. But I found it to be too noisy. All the buzz from my three overdrives was being amplified by the comp. It just wasn't worth the trade-off.

So now I compress before distorting. I use two compressors--an Aphex (very subtle, like the Demeter) that's always on, and a Ross clone (very extreme) that I kick in when I want to do infinite sustain solos or chicken pickin'.

My tuner solution came pretty easy: both of the guitars I use live have stereo out jacks, with both magnetic pickup and piezo outs (Parker Fly and Tele w/Fishman Powerbridge), so I run my acoustic side into my tuner before going to a Baggs DI and to the board. That way, I can tune silently by turning down my volume pedal, and I can pop the acoustic sound in and out when I need it.

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Originally posted by Monster Mike Welch:
Hey everybody...

I'm just in the middle of setting up my first board in about five or six years, and I wanted any advice you would care to give. So far, what I have is (in order):

BJF Honey Bee
BJF Baby Blue
Boss TU-2
Demeter COMP-1 Compulator
HAO Rust Booster
Line 6 MM4 (for trem, Leslie, and vibrato)
Line 6 DL$ (fast and slow tape echoes)

Would you put the clean boost before or after mod/delay? Also, any comments on order of ODs/comp/boost would be great.

Also, for those of you with both the Honey Bee and Baby Blue - how are you setting them? I have the HB at volume 3:00, nature 10:00, and drive maxed, and the BBOD at volume maxed, treble 2:00, and drive 9:00. I'm really looking to maximize the differences between the Honey Bee's small amp squishiness and the Baby Blue's more naturalistic sweet drive.

Any thoughts would be appreciated...

M

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Hey, Mike - nice to have you on the forum. I have your first couple of CD's - great stuff! Still using the Sonic Blue Strat?

As you already know, there is no right or wrong when it comes to effects placement. But there are a few strategies that seem to work best, hence, that's what most guys do. For example, placing a compressor first in line before overdrives or any other gain adding device. I think it sounds and feels more natural this way, but it also keeps the noise floor lower as the comps will amplify ambient line noise so the more you have in front of it, the noisier your signal is likely to be. I also place my clean boost dead last in the chain right before the amp so it follows everything - including modulation and delay devices if I happent to be using any (I usually don't but I am adding a VL Analog Chorus later this week for chorus/vibe tones).

I run the BBOD a bit different than you. I use it for a low to medium gain lead tone (no rhythm work with this one) so I pump up the Gain to about 11:30 and the Volume is right around the same point to give me a little volume boost for leads. The Tone is around 2:00 like you set your's. Depending on your amp and stage volume, I would imagine that the boosted output on the BBOD is pushing your amp into some level of clip also so you are getting some from the pedal and some from your amp.

At any rate, I would do this for starters:

Boss TU-2
Demeter COMP-1 Compulator
BJF Honey Bee
BJF Baby Blue
Line 6 MM4
Line 6 DL$
HAO Rust Booster

Here's something else for you to consider. Overdrives add some compression and the more you use, the more your going to get. So I use a Dual Loop Switcher because I only want compression on my clean signal or with my TIM overdrive (TIM for very mild overdrive tones for slightly dirty rhythm work). So I have a Blackbox Oxygen Compressor and the TIM in the A loop and my heavier lead overdrive(s) (BBOD and DRD until recently, Tonebone Classic at the moment) in the "B" Loop. That way, I can leave pedals on and get to their tones just by stepping on the one switch on the loop box. For example, when the "B" loop is active, the Tonebone is the only thing on and the Oxygen and TIM are not even in the signal path. This way I can leave the Oxygen on at all times but when I am using a heavier lead overdrive, my tone isn't over compressing. Hit the loop switch and the Tonebone is out of the signal path and I'm back to my clean or slightly dirty rhythm tone. It lessens the number of pedals that are in the path at any given moment and also lessens the number of switches I have to step on to go between different tones.

Another thought is to either pick up a Strobostomp or get an A/B switch for the tuner. Yeah, I know alot of guys use the TU-2 and leave it in their signal path, but I wish I had a nickel for everytime I read where a player finally removed it and THEN realized that it had been affecting their bypassed tone. The Strobostomp is more accurate, has offsets programmed in and is true bypass. Let us know what you decide to do and how it works out for you!

By the way, Mike, I really enjoy your music. I know you got lumped in with the "brat pack" of guitar in the late 90's--all the young white boys playing blues, but I always thought you had a sound all your own. I'm really diggin' your work with Sugar Ray. Some of the slow blues on that album (like "Funk-shun") sounds like Peter Green come back to life.

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Originally posted by telemonk:
Its all subjective but I personally don't like how comp sounds before any od/distortion. Lends an unpleasent coloration to the od for me-comp doesn't seem as intrusive when plugged in after the ods. For od's i tend to line up the most over the top one first; the lighter ones second/third . Stacking od's seems to work better for me when I do it that way...Looks like a nice little board btw.

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This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with different perspectives! Sorry to use your post to contrast mine, Bro!

Comps after the OD's tends to flatten everything out. If you are relying on the output of an OD to set a lead boost level, it is harder to do with the comp following the OD because the comp sees that boost and is trying to squash it - that's the comps job.

Same deal with the stacked overdrive thing. I used to do that but I found that I get too much compression from stacking. I also do the exact opposite and place lighter overdrives first and heavier OD's later. The heavier OD tends to be a lead tone which requires a boosted output level. Running the milder, lower output overdrive after the heavier, louder lead pedal causes the lead pedal to be squashed - and even more output is needed to get the boost happening - which causes even more compression to occur. You can control the level from the lower gain OD, but then that makes that pedal only useful when the heavier pedal is on and limits it's usefulness by itself.

To each his own! Obviously, these techniques work for Telemonk, but both are going to have a tendency to limit using overdrives for a lead boost because there are pedals following the lead boost that are going to limit the pedals that come before. It is also going to produce more overall compression than what I suggested. That's not a bad thing - it just depends on what you want to hear!

Hey Mike -

Nice to have another local guy on the boards. I saw you on a Boston Harbor booze cruise about 8 or 9 years ago. Sounds like you've been doing better

I would just add that the TU2 is not very accurate. I had 2 of them, on different boards and found that one would get me in tune and the other would be out - same guitar same tuning technique. Then after selling them, both people eventally told me they broke. Then my singers TU2 broke. IMO, the TU2 is the worst pedal tuner out there.

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Originally posted by Tone Dog:

quote:

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Originally posted by telemonk:
Its all subjective but I personally don't like how comp sounds before any od/distortion. Lends an unpleasent coloration to the od for me-comp doesn't seem as intrusive when plugged in after the ods. For od's i tend to line up the most over the top one first; the lighter ones second/third . Stacking od's seems to work better for me when I do it that way...Looks like a nice little board btw.

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This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with different perspectives! Sorry to use your post to contrast mine, Bro!

Comps after the OD's tends to flatten everything out. If you are relying on the output of an OD to set a lead boost level, it is harder to do with the comp following the OD because the comp sees that boost and is trying to squash it - that's the comps job.

Same deal with the stacked overdrive thing. I used to do that but I found that I get too much compression from stacking. I also do the exact opposite and place lighter overdrives first and heavier OD's later. The heavier OD tends to be a lead tone which requires a boosted output level. Running the milder, lower output overdrive after the heavier, louder lead pedal causes the lead pedal to be squashed - and even more output is needed to get the boost happening - which causes even more compression to occur. You can control the level from the lower gain OD, but then that makes that pedal only useful when the heavier pedal is on and limits it's usefulness by itself.

To each his own! Obviously, these techniques work for Telemonk, but both are going to have a tendency to limit using overdrives for a lead boost because there are pedals following the lead boost that are going to limit the pedals that come before. It is also going to produce more overall compression than what I suggested. That's not a bad thing - it just depends on what you want to hear!

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What he said...!!

Chow,
Seegs

Mike,
Do you leave t he Comp on all the time - or do you kick it in for leads, or just to smmoth the cleans ???

And yeah if your running long leads to and from your board the buffer in the tuner may actually help retain some tone sinct the other pedals you have are t rubypass except t he Line 6 stuff ( do you run t he Line 6 stuff in trubypass mode - do the delays tail out after you switch it off???)

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Some of the slow blues on that album (like "Funk-shun") sounds like Peter Green come back to life.

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That's the best compliment I've had all year. I'll be walking around like John Holmes for the rest of the day.

Thanks everyone for the advice - what it's made me realize is that I'm not particularly a pedal stacker, at least with OD/comps/fuzzes. I tend to use one at a time for different shades of gain, and therefore, it doesn't really matter what goes where. Stacking just gets too gainy for me, especially as my amp is never super-clean. What I'm using everything for is as follows:

HB - squishy, small-amp, bluesy, ratty, low-to-mid-gain.

BBOD - tighter, slightly higher gain, smoother low-to-mid-gain.

Demeter - compressed low-to-mid-gain.

Rust Booster - bigger, edgier low-to-mid-gain.

I guess I spent a lot of money on variations of the same thing...but I wouldn't trade any of these tones for the world...

M