Thought I'd start a thread on the subject and see where it goes.

On my way home from work I was listening to some Lenny Kravitz (a simplicity genius in my book) anywat on the song Sister he doesn't have a lot of tracks going on but he did use something we usually all want to get rid of in a creative way... amp noise... there's some amp noise on teh right channel that is there on purpose as a layer... on the left it's an acoustic and you have voice on top of that... so simple but it works.

I'm a fan of both extreme either over the top as Def Leppard can get in terms of layers and harmony and simple stuff with clever ideas.

That's just one example there... to get the ball rolling. I'm sure you guys have a lot of cool ones to share.

One thing was funny today. Our producer has these great microphones called Naiant. Those I can really recommend, some of 'em are tube mic's about as big as one XLR plug and one female jack sticked together. He has the solid state version as well. Anyhow, since they're really small you might not exacly find them all of the time. Like, physically. So today there was one somewhere over in a corner under a coat on the floor or something. He turned it up and it had the perfect room sound! Seriously, stick those anywhere and your stuff sounds great. They also get a great kick sound by duct taping 'em to a cushion that's stuffed in the kick.

Also, these vintage Shures we have hear kick arse. We have some vintage (like early 80s I think, dunno, we borrowed 'em) SM58's that just tend to sound better than the new ones. Don't know why, but they do. They're heavier as well. Also, this pair of old BG40's are the awesomest room mic's ever! On drums (especially squashed through a limiter - I love that sound) but also on guitars.

Then there's the old trick of using a bass speaker as a microphone on another bass amp. We used a 15" one because we simply didn't have anything else, but that gives you the warm heavy lololow part of a bass sound perfectly. Instant testosterone shot for a bass sound.

Check out them Behringer Ultragain pre-amps by the way. Sound like shite, until you pop in a NOS or another good tube. Really, really cool stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Glo®bz:
Thought I'd start a thread on the subject and see where it goes.

On my way home from work I was listening to some Lenny Kravitz (a simplicity genius in my book) anywat on the song Sister he doesn't have a lot of tracks going on but he did use something we usually all want to get rid of in a creative way... amp noise... there's some amp noise on teh right channel that is there on purpose as a layer... on the left it's an acoustic and you have voice on top of that... so simple but it works.

I'm a fan of both extreme either over the top as Def Leppard can get in terms of layers and harmony and simple stuff with clever ideas.

That's just one example there... to get the ball rolling. I'm sure you guys have a lot of cool ones to share.

I LOVE that tune, especially the solo. And you are right, they left that amp noise there on purpose. Also you can clearly hear the footswitch of the wah click on and off.
H

Using a speaker as a mic... next time you feel like it put a 15" speaker as a mic to a kick skin

For a more 'radio' friendly sound use a 4"

Put a snare undenreath a grand piano for nice overtone and hamronics

TONS of things I did using mics in the studio.


More interested on sounds done differently or coming from weird sources.

Like the infamous Prince snare sound... coming from a mix of a snare a ruler snapping on a desk and a few outboard tricks...

I still dig teh idea of amp noise as a layer put in teh arrangement, I'll probably play that song a few times tomorrow morning on my way to work lmao. Made my day.

I'm a sucker for those details.

I definitely don't do it a lot ... but tuning an acoustic guitar (or autoharp) to the "home" chord/key of the song, putting in the recording environment and putting a live mic in front of it yields some interesting sympathetic ambient tones. Piano will do the same thing if the sustain pedal is down. Add some verb and delay (or flange and phase - whatever) to the mic'd acoustic or piano too. I don't where I got that - Zep, Beatles, Pink Floyd - I read it in an interview somewhere? Great space and spatial effect.

Record your stuff outside on a wooden porch and let all the bird and dog noises fall in as they will.

Instead of using a drum kit, get your rhythm section with a collection of boot and shoe stomps, tambourines, egg shakers, jaw harps, whatever.

Speaking of drum kits, forego use of 43 carefully placed and meticulously EQ'ed mics, gels and all that jazz, and place one or two overhead mics high atop the kit, and get the room sound.

Where you might ordinarily use a bell ride cymbal, use a tuned glass of water in a crystal glass instead.

Use a pencil as a drumstick and a cardboard box as a snare.

Instead of doubling rhythm guitar tracks with guitar tracks, use a ukelele, mandolin, banjo, or autoharp.

Play signature hook melodies on a lap steel instead of a guitar.

Instead of getting sustained chord pads/washes with a guitar or keyboard, use an accordion, layered Ebow tracks, or layered kazoo tracks.

Record the bass mercilessly through a battery powered Pignose or Danelectro amp. Be prepared to buy another batter powered amp.

Record lead rides on an electric guitar with no amp and no sustain - put a mic in front of the instrument, as you would an acoustic instrument.

Check out my sig. All the songs are just drafts, released stuff doesn't go up and it goes on another name. But they definitely come from a different place.

quote:

Originally posted by klasaine:
I definitely don't do it a lot ... but tuning an acoustic guitar (or autoharp) to the "home" chord/key of the song, putting in the recording environment and putting a live mic in front of it yields some interesting sympathetic ambient tones. Piano will do the same thing if the sustain pedal is down. Add some verb and delay (or flange and phase - whatever) to the mic'd acoustic or piano too. I don't where I got that - Zep, Beatles, Pink Floyd - I read it in an interview somewhere? Great space and spatial effect.

Did that once... for the vocal track had a guitar few feet from the singer's with a mic in front of it... it does add a little something !

Putting teh singer singing to a corner with mic facing the corner not the singer gives interesting resulsts also... tried that on amps first but after hearing it I wanted toi try it on vocal... tried it with an sm57.

quote:

Originally posted by Corleone:
Record your stuff outside on a wooden porch and let all the bird and dog noises fall in as they will.
Love that! Gotta try it with my Basset Hound

Instead of using a drum kit, get your rhythm section with a collection of boot and shoe stomps, tambourines, egg shakers, jaw harps, whatever.

Speaking of drum kits, forego use of 43 carefully placed and meticulously EQ'ed mics, gels and all that jazz, and place one or two overhead mics high atop the kit, and get the room sound.

I"m a believer in 3 mic for a drum... One overhead way high one pointing to snare in between snare &hi-hat but not close like 2feet away from the actual snare! And an obvious one in the kick. Move the mic around a bit and you should have something to work with fast if you don't... well don't quit your day job just yet hehe

About the "43 mics"... well did that too, went to teh point of putting a fart track on a record... yup had a piezo mic underneath the drummers stool... that one came about after the bassman and guitar player wanted out of the room to track in the control room... they couldn't stand his last night chili or something

Where you might ordinarily use a bell ride cymbal, use a tuned glass of water in a crystal glass instead.

Use a pencil as a drumstick and a cardboard box as a snare.

ROFL Man you just sparked memory of me as a teenager recording an Ice Tea can with pencil... playing the tension on the tin as I'd hit it... and I was doubling a snare from a drumbox to blend those 2 so that I could get a more "humanize" feel... was doing that with 2 tape decks I didn't have a clue about multi tracking yet... was doing it the George Martin style I guess learning as I go!

Instead of doubling rhythm guitar tracks with guitar tracks, use a ukelele, mandolin, banjo, or autoharp.

I was expecting that from you... and all I gotta say is AMEN

Play signature hook melodies on a lap steel instead of a guitar.

Instead of getting sustained chord pads/washes with a guitar or keyboard, use an accordion, layered Ebow tracks, or layered kazoo tracks.

I keep putting off buying an eBow... I don't know why I do... I"ll put it on teh xmas list thanks for the reminder!

Record the bass mercilessly through a battery powered Pignose or Danelectro amp. Be prepared to buy another batter powered amp.

Never tried bass trough my smokey... I will tho good idea! What I do a lot is double bass lines with a clean guitar neck pickup tone roll down and doing volume swell subtle but adds a certain sustain that is hard to describe.


Record lead rides on an electric guitar with no amp and no sustain - put a mic in front of the instrument, as you would an acoustic instrument.

Yeah gotta love the pink noise track, for more drastic effect use a thin celluloid

That's some cool tips, guys!

One I have used, that seems to work really well, is the "Ghost Resonance" thing of tuning another instrument to the Key of a tune and letting it ring out in sympathy. In fact, a Banjo with a Mic stuck right up on the Banjo Head, sounds great to add some grit to an Overdriven Guitar track. And added into a Bass track, it can add a little Fuzzy edge to the cleaner Bass Tones.

Little Smokey Tricks:


Vocal Effect:
Plug a Mic into the LS, and hold the speaker up to another Mic to record the Fuzzed Vocals.

Talk Box:
Unhook the Speaker, and splice an EarBud onto the LS. Pop the EarBud into your mouth (There is a LITTLE shock, but it really is small. Like touching a Battery to your tongue. Just DO IT! LOL). Instant Talk Box! Just "sing" into another Mic, while playing this Guitar and Talk Box combo.

You can also get some Talk Box type effects, with another person cupping the LS in their hands, with the speaker firing towards their mouth, while right up on the Mic. As they move their mouth, it will shape the notes, Talk Box style.

Leslie Effect:
While playing, hold the LS up to a Mic, and let it "Spin" in front of the Mic. This takes an extra set of hands, so someone can be the official "Rotator". (Try getting someone to volunteer, for THAT title! LOL).

Wah Effects:
Similar to the 2 person, "hold the LS to the Mic" technique. But this time, the "Rotator" guy/gal holds the LS in their cupped hands, and has the speaker firing into their palm. As the Rotator moved their hand colser and farther from the speaker, it can yield some cool "Wah" type effects.

Big Smokey:
Try running the LS into a larger 8ohm cab. It will power the cab, and doesn't sound half bad! Sound good for Lap Steel and Slide, too! Extra Points for compressing the he!! out of the signal.

This looks like another winner:

http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/amps/mahoney.php

Could be some good tricks with something like this also.

Well we could start a topic with what you can do with a Smokey Amp

Ceiling fan, underwater in a condom, in a bucket or various size vase... through a tube...

Some of the best backing vocals I've ever got were by using relatively cheap equipment: no name mics and a Tascam 4 track cassette. I was recently listening to some old tapes from 15-16 years ago, where just me and another guy played and sang all the parts - we did quite a lot of recording that way. We bounced every song down again and again until there were 10 tracks on every tune. This sloppy technique somehow made the backing vocal wash sound beautifully thick and complex, as if there were 10 or 12 tracks of just vocals, instead of the actual 4 we usually did. Now I have a digital recorder, and much better mics, and if I want the same effect, I have to actually record many more parts than with the cheap equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by Corleone:Speaking of drum kits, forego use of 43 carefully placed and meticulously EQ'ed mics, gels and all that jazz, and place one or two overhead mics high atop the kit, and get the room sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Glo®bz:
I"m a believer in 3 mic for a drum... One overhead way high one pointing to snare in between snare &hi-hat but not close like 2feet away from the actual snare! And an obvious one in the kick. Move the mic around a bit and you should have something to work with fast if you don't... well don't quit your day job just yet hehe

In my experience, the minimal mic approach just allows a kit to sit more cohesively within a track. The balance between the individual components of a kit just seems to naturally take care of itself. One of the biggest beefs I have with drummers is overuse of cmbyals, and one of the biggest beefs I have with (some) engineers is the upper treble response of cymbals and hats, particularly if the recording is to be completely or mostly digital-based, but it can be just as much of a thing within analog realms as well. Minimal mic approach ensures me that there'll be less "crash" and more "splash" in this regard, and I don't freak so hard if there's a cymbal-happy drummer involved.

As to the engineer that anally places mics and gels: the upside is that if they've got good vision, the kit sounds can be fucking incredible. This is all fine and good as long as the individual has a sense of self-editing and a modicum of taste. The downside (often the case) is that after all this painstaking work, the engineer is so proud of their work that the kit sounds wind up being too prominent in the mix by default. The live equivalent is being at a soundcheck where the tech spends all of his or her time on getting "killer" drum sounds, to the point to where the wad has been shot, prior to approaching melody instruments and other such "gravy"... and subsequently, transistor radio levels are the easiest thing to work with.

I have a little trick for judging kit levels within mixes. Take the rough and play it on the cheapest boombox available. Turn the volume down to a whisper. If the drums are the predominant sound at ridiculously low levels, they're too hot and too present. On the flipside, I can't get on board with drum levels that sound like Boston records either.

quote:

Originally posted by Corleone:Instead of getting sustained chord pads/washes with a guitar or keyboard, use an accordion, layered Ebow tracks, or layered kazoo tracks.

quote:

Originally posted by Glo®bz:I keep putting off buying an eBow... I don't know why I do... I"ll put it on teh xmas list thanks for the reminder!

Yes, get one immediately! While you're at it, if you don't own one already, get a baritone guitar. Ebow + baritone guitar + futzing with treble rolloff (instrument or outboard), along with cool sounding ambience, yields approximations of cello, flutes, oboes, analog synths, as well as all sorts of rude, inorganic noises.

quote:

Originally posted by cognition:
Some of the best backing vocals I've ever got were by using relatively cheap equipment: no name mics and a Tascam 4 track cassette. I was recently listening to some old tapes from 15-16 years ago, where just me and another guy played and sang all the parts - we did quite a lot of recording that way. We bounced every song down again and again until there were 10 tracks on every tune. This sloppy technique somehow made the backing vocal wash sound beautifully thick and complex, as if there were 10 or 12 tracks of just vocals, instead of the actual 4 we usually did. Now I have a digital recorder, and much better mics, and if I want the same effect, I have to actually record many more parts than with the cheap equipment.

Dig it. It certainly worked for George Martin.

Nobody "ping pongs" anymore, but bouncing tracks can have a beautiful inherent compression that's not to be denied. My old Tascam Portastudio is still hanging around in the basement, and I used to love bouncing with that. My fave is actually the old early 80's boombox that I'm listening to the radio on as I type; unfortunately, its internal mic has long since cashed in its chips, but I used to take vocal stacks recorded through this silly little beast and boost them via DI or re-mic'ing.

quote:

Originally posted by Corleone:
I have a little trick for judging kit levels within mixes. Take the rough and play it on the cheapest boombox available. Turn the volume down to a whisper. If the drums are the predominant sound at ridiculously low levels, they're too hot and too present. On the flipside, I can't get on board with drum levels that sound like Boston records either.

The boombox trick is always a good reference, that's why Auratone cheap speaker ever got a chance into pro studio. A cheap pair of speakers should always be part of a studio...grab a cheap pair of computer speakers and check mixes on that... you'll learn quickly how to work your mids.

How do you hook up the bass speaker to use it as a mic? This intrigues me.

I've done something similar to Corleone's mic'ing the strings of the unplugged electric. I mic'ed the strings of a an electric plugged into a clean amp that was far away. The sound was uniquely electric and accoustic in that you got the string sound and the amp sound.

quote:

Originally posted by porkchop:
How do you hook up the bass speaker to use it as a mic? This intrigues me.

Basically you remove the 2 wire connections inside a mic going to the capsule and wire them to a speaker.

A speaker when used reverse can be a mic... I'm sure you've seen people using heaphone as a mic at some point or heard about it... applying the same principle to a higher scale so to speak
Of course you need some preamp down the signal for gain tweak but it does work and give interesting results.

quote:

Originally posted by Glo®bz:Basically you remove the 2 wire connections inside a mic going to the capsule and wire them to a speaker.

Dude! It's so much simpler. Just take the jack plug where you would normally plug an amp in and run a lead to the input of your recording interface or a pre-amp.

If you got an amp yeah, I was thinking only the speaker!