Okay I am nuts for mixing two asymetric Topics. But it is just me thinking about music in general.
HEy! I even had a great dream last night about walking downtown and encountering Steve Vai playing live on an acoustic, I even shook his hand and then Kaboom! I was saluted by Zakk Wylde even got a brother hug.I told both guys to keep rocking. Man those Black LAbel songs are messing me up and I do not even nor have ever smoke weed.. True I am naturaly rock crazy.

Ok back to the thread.
BREAKING NEWS: LED ZEPPELIN ARE ON THE STUDIO JAMMING AND THERE IS TALK ABOUT A NEW RECORD YAHOOO!!! Finally!!!! It must rock, too long anticipation build up,for Zep fans.

God bless our middle age rock crisis!!

I love Zep's composing skills.. have you felt how weird the beat tempo is on "Black DOg", man it is weirdly on time!

MEtallica.. have heard the clips on their web site and I must predict base upon the tones, I repeat based on the tONEs AND riffs the following:

We ladies and gentlemen might have a winner coming up! The Death Magnetic might get lots of playing from this rologibson dude.



Now I am very interested in sharing and hoping you guys comment on the following:

I have just realized that those Metallica rich metal punks have one thing very well done. They have "Great Song Mixing eq"

Meaning, they sound so rocking not only because the guitars are distorted but IMHO because the Drum's crashes and cymbals are not annoyingly too present or loud on the final mix.

Most rock and metal acts annoyingly place to much emphasis on high drum cymbals on the Sound Mix and the hi-hats(mudd things out).

Therefore I believe a big part of Metallica's success lies on having great Sound Mixes.
Care to agree or disagree.

Of course good songs help, but I am zeroing on the Sound Mixing that make Metallica songs rock harder and clearer.

PLease share you tone experts.

Yeah, Black Dog has some seriously 'messed up' time - especially when the lick modulates (to the V?). All in a very good and super cool way though. I've yet to hear anybody play it "right" - including myself.

I totally agree that Metallica 'nailed' the mixing thing. I'm not a huge Metallica fan, but I do like listening to their records because they "sound" good. That's actually one of the things that I feel is lost today with a lot of newer music and musicians - "the composition of 'the album' and the overall aural quality of it". Metallica still comes from the time when the "LP" (at least 45 minutes of well recorded music) was the gold standard of recording. Personally 'I' still think it is, and/or will be again.

If I remember right, the guitar lick is in 5/4 time, but Bonham plays the beat in 4/4.

John Paul Jones explained it once as a "hemiola", which is playing an odd lick over a straight beat.

The "correct" way to count it would be like this: the lick is 4 bars long. This first two bars are 4/4, the third is 5/4, and the fourth is 4/4.

Got it yet??!!! It's a weird one!

H

As far as MetallicA, I'm a fan. I actually like the Black album, and even Load and Reload. I think Bob Rock brought some great sonic weight to the band. I thought they did some of their best stuff during that period. Most people disagree, but they just can't accept the fact that MetallicA had to evolve.

Also, contrary to what many people say, Lars Ulrich is a pretty nice guy. He was extremely friendly when I met him a few years ago. I was expecting him to be an ass. Kirk was very nice, and Jaymes was rather quiet.

H

I have wanted to like Metallica more. When they first came out, I could never really get into them. Sounded like there were some cool Riffs, etc. But, it also sounded like they just "copy and pasted" those licks together. Never really seemed to have the compositional chops to pull off what they were going for. (I know, everybody is going to disagree with me, but.....)

I even went to a few concerts, with my friends who were rabid fans. The live sound was always total mud. Especially the Master Of Puppets Tour. Really impossible to listen to. They jammed, don't get me wrong. And I had a good time at the shows, because I was determined to.

The only stuff I liked from back then, was the tune "One". Basically, because of the depth of the lyrics. And the aggression of the band was a good fit for that tune.

As far as the mixes, etc. Well, I thought that the Bass Guitar was always kinda absent from their sound. The guitars kinda got in the way of the Bass Guitar. So, I missed that aspect of the band. Obviously, everyone else in the Free World disagrees with me on these points. I've been told over the years, that I totally missed the point. But, I don't think so.

When the Black Album came out, I thought that they were finally playing songs. A huge step forward, as I saw it. Of course, all of the die-hard Metallica Fans were kinda cold to this Album. But, I thought it was their best up to that point. And there was a Bass Guitarist in their band, all along! I heard it finally, on the Black Album.

Load was even better! Now, there were 2 Guitars playing contrasting rhythms, and fills, etc. Plus, they managed to keep the Bass Guitar in there. And the songwriting got even more thoughtful.

Re-Load was their best (to me, of course!). Another step forward, with their new found skills and styles being refined.

As a side note: I thought it was pretty funny, to read about the Band finding out what the "Flames, etc." on the Load album cover were really made from! Kinda brings a whole new perspective to the title of those 2 Albums! LOL

St. Anger; Well, I have it. But, I never really listened to it much. It's probably got some good stuff on there. But, I just never heard anything that caught my ear.

So, maybe I'll dig the new stuff? I'm definately not wanting to dislike any musics. So, I will try to have an open mind (ear?) when it comes out.

Either way, take these comments as they are meant. I'm a fan of Heavy Metal, and Hard Rock. But, this particular Band just never really hooked me. I'm sure that I'll be a minority in this regard. I'm definately not wanting to slag on Metallica. These are just some views from the "outside", I guess.

Rock On, Rock Soldiers!

P.S.

Now that new Zeppelin stuff? OH YEAH!!!! Can't wait!

quote:

Originally posted by Headshot LLC:
John Paul Jones explained it once as a "hemiola", which is playing an odd lick over a straight beat.

A hemiola is playing one time signature over the bar lines of another. Kashmir is an example of a hemiola. Bonham plays in 4/4 while the band is playing in 3/4 and they are only "catching up" to each other every 4 bars. I believe Black Dog is actually just an example of changing bar lines between 2/4, 4/4 and 5/4 to follow the riff. Bonham follows the riff, he's not playing across the riff like in Kashmir, so I don't think its actually a hemiola. The band Yes also played a lot of changing time signature influenced (I've read) by their love of Stravinsky (almost no where in the Rite of Spring do 2 consecutive bar lines have the same time signature).

Either way its more progressive than they are usually credited for. They actually did this a lot, but usually for a bar in between transitions, not so much like in Black Dog where its actually an aspect of the main riff.

I have a different take on the Metallica thing. I grew up two blocks away from the house that megaforce records (their first label)was run out of. The whole thrash scene was really taking off in the NY and NJ area. It was only a matter of time before it spread to the rest of the country. Many of the early records had ok at best production. Kill em All and Ride the Lightning sound way different than the Black album. And Justice for All was horribly produced IMO. The guitars sounded great but the bass was gone and the drums sounded like cardboard- especially the bass drum. All these records have done well. The key I believe is great riffs. Cream, Sabbath, Maiden, and Metallica are all great riff bands. Riffs sell records. The Black album had great production of great riffs.