quote:

Originally posted by TY:
I disagree. I think that the left and right have a fundamentally different understanding of the COUNTRY itself; i.e. it's values, ideals, purpose, etc. And this divergence is become greater and greater, I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by Blues Lyne:

quote:

Originally posted by PedalworX dude:
Do you not find it at all strange that we do not even have a clue as to who these E.C. people are?
At least you and I do not know who makes up the E.C. but I would bet those in the large Military Industrial Complex and the fine folks at Exxon/Mobile know exactly who they are and it appears that they may have gotten to them.

2004 Electoral College

It's easy to find who they were and how they voted. It's not some clandestine society. They don't even all get together. Each state's electoral college electors meet in their own state capitals and vote.

You can't find out who they are before the election, because they aren't elected until after. They are usually people from the political party of the candidate that won the popular vote from their state, who have pledged to vote for that candidate. They face not only being ostracized and sanctioned by their party, but in many states, legal consequences, for changing their vote from what they had pledged.

In every state that I check for the 2000 election and the 2004 election, all of the states electoral votes went to the candidate that won the popular vote in that state.

Whether or not the electoral college is a good thing, or a popular vote is a good thing, can be debated forever. And, both sides have some very good points. But, it's not like the electoral college is some secret clandestine group that is fixing elections for the evil power mongers.

quote:

Originally posted by PedalworX dude:

quote:

Originally posted by Blues Lyne:

quote:

Originally posted by PedalworX dude:
Do you not find it at all strange that we do not even have a clue as to who these E.C. people are?
At least you and I do not know who makes up the E.C. but I would bet those in the large Military Industrial Complex and the fine folks at Exxon/Mobile know exactly who they are and it appears that they may have gotten to them.

2004 Electoral College

It's easy to find who they were and how they voted. It's not some clandestine society. They don't even all get together. Each state's electoral college electors meet in their own state capitals and vote.

You can't find out who they are before the election, because they aren't elected until after. They are usually people from the political party of the candidate that won the popular vote from their state, who have pledged to vote for that candidate. They face not only being ostracized and sanctioned by their party, but in many states, legal consequences, for changing their vote from what they had pledged.

In every state that I check for the 2000 election and the 2004 election, all of the states electoral votes went to the candidate that won the popular vote in that state.

Whether or not the electoral college is a good thing, or a popular vote is a good thing, can be debated forever. And, both sides have some very good points. But, it's not like the electoral college is some secret clandestine group that is fixing elections for the evil power mongers.

Great post B.L.

So you are saying that if Diebold was bought by a large defense manufacturer there is nothing to be concerned about?

Is it just paranoia on my part when gas hits $5 a gallon with an oilman in the White House that won the election without having the larger popular vote?

When President Kennedy got shot in Dallas and was succeeded by a Texan was any thought of foul play just paranoid thought too?

Enron was just an accounting mistake made in Texas.

The S&L scandal Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out. Nothing evil here either I suppose.

For a dose of paranoia check out our national debt here:
http://brillig.com/debt_clock/

Should the alarm bell be ringing somewhere?

Is being asleep part of the American Dream?


"BTW, I was not suggesting the EC were "evil power mongers"

My gripe with the EC is that it makes voting in an independent next to impossible, makes my vote worthless unless I vote for a Democrat in NY and pretty much keeps things status quo with a two party system.

quote:

Originally posted by Blues Lyne:
Wow, don't recall saying anything like that. Nor do I see it anywhere in my post. You said we don't know who's in the electoral college and I showed you where you could find out and see exactly how they voted.
Right on and thank you for thie link and maybe I could see "exactly" how they voted...not sure about that one though
"Is being asleep part of the American Dream?"

I don't know, you tell me. You're the one that seems upset by a post giving people access to information on who the electors are, how they voted and how that compared to the popular vote in each state. Were you happier when it was a secret that nobody knew?
Not at all and I did appreciate the link and the info.
"BTW, I was not suggesting the EC were "evil power mongers"

I never said that you did. You said "I would bet those in the large Military Industrial Complex and the fine folks at Exxon/Mobile know exactly who they are and it appears that they may have gotten to them."
Believe it or not money talks in Washington . How do you think the Party players pay for hookers and such? LOL
Come on man do you think they actually spend millions for the Presidency that pays less than a ball player makes by accident? It doesn't make business sense unless there is money to be made
And I said it's easy to see how they voted and see if they voted as they should, and it appears that they did vote the way they were supposed to, so they aren't fixing elections for the power mongers that you mentioned.
That is incorrect but your right to believe it. Those in power wanted us involved in the Middle East so getting Bush into the White House was necessary regardless of the belief that the system actually worked right. Just a thought but there can be manipulations of number and pictures to make things appear not as they really are but as we want them to appear. Check out all the doctored Kennedy autopsy photos, for instance, and technology wasn't anywhere near where it is today.
If you think for a minute it's not happening check out the trillion and a half dollars being spent over seas while our infrastructure suffers

"My gripe with the EC is that it makes voting in an independent next to impossible, makes my vote worthless unless I vote for a Democrat in NY and pretty much keeps things status quo with a two party system."

Like I said there are valid arguments on both sides of the electoral college issue. That is a valid concern. However, you never said anything like that in the post I responded to.

quote:

Originally posted by dirty murphy:

PPS...Pedalworx dude - nice tie-in w/ the Kennedy assasination!!! LBJ was famous for having his rivals and people "in his way" turn up dead apparently...
Ever been to Texas? I love Austin, but I spent a weekend in ElPaso ... that place is like Twin Peaks!

quote:

Originally posted by PedalworX dude:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blues Lyne:
"BTW, I was not suggesting the EC were "evil power mongers"

I never said that you did. You said "I would bet those in the large Military Industrial Complex and the fine folks at Exxon/Mobile know exactly who they are and it appears that they may have gotten to them."
Believe it or not money talks in Washington . How do you think the Party players pay for hookers and such? LOL
Come on man do you think they actually spend millions for the Presidency that pays less than a ball player makes by accident? It doesn't make business sense unless there is money to be made

I never said anything about money or it's voice in Washington. But if the "money" people had gotten to the electors, the evidence would be that they had voted against who they were pledge to vote for, or different from the winner of the popular vote in that state. I don't see any that did in the last two elections. Though, I didn't check all 50 states.


And I said it's easy to see how they voted and see if they voted as they should, and it appears that they did vote the way they were supposed to, so they aren't fixing elections for the power mongers that you mentioned.
That is incorrect but your right to believe it. ...

Why do you say that this is incorrect? What evidence do you have that any of the electors voted against the popular vote of their state, or against who they were pledged to vote for? If you are talking about the Florida vote, that had nothing to do with the electoral college, or anyone bribing people in the college. The state vote is essentially a vote to elect the electors, so until that vote was settled, there would be no electors in the electoral college.

You mention that you are not sure that you can actually see exactly who they voted for, but with the exception of two states, if you click on the link that says "certificate of vote, you can view their signatures and who they voted for.