Since my 52ri tele is giving me the single coil sounds I like, I'm going to convert my Am. Standard Strat to a 2 humbucker config. I'm not as up on buckers as single coils so I need advice to get the sounds similar to the following:
Led Zep
Cream
Humble Pie
ZZtop
Bad Co.
Free
Aerosmith
ACDC
Grateful Dead (1969)
Some thing between 8.5k and 12k output would probably be good.
So far the duncan 59' looks cool as well as the Burstbuckers.

Any and all advice WELCOME.
Thanks

What about a Duncan Pearly Gates (neck) and a Duncan Custom (brigde). OR maybe an AlnicoIIPro in the neck position.

A lot of the sound/tone you are hearing in the bands you mention is a "Gibson"- type sound, not just humbucking pickups per se.

The shorter scale length on SGs & Les Pauls gives tones & sounds very different from the Fender 25.5 inch scale.

The mahogany neck/body sounds very different to maple or ash used in Teles & Strats.

The "stop tailpiece" bridge on a Les Paul or SG imparts a very different set of tones than the strings-through-body system on a Fender - & even then, even the type of steel (cold-rolled, hot cast etc) of the tremolo block on a Strat can cause noticeable differences to the timbre of the notes and so on.

The 19º rake angle of the headstock on a Gibson also makles a dramatic difference to the sound.

You may get a lot closer to achieving your goal for little more than the cost of a decent set of 'buckers by acquiring a cheap Les Paul - the current Epiphone (by Gibson) Les Paul Standard re-issues are exceptional value for money.

I have been playing Strats for 30 years, but picked up a Les Paul Standard with a Flame Maple Top in a beautiful translucent wine-red last month for HK$2400 (just over US$300) brand new with 12-month warranty etc. in the summer sale at Tom Lee Music here in Hong Kong (they also have branches in Canada).

It has Gibson Alnico p'ups with the proper enameled wire, wax potted etc,
& sounds great on full - instant "Can't get Enough, ZZ Top etc., dead on.

Unfortunately I find when I turn it down a ways, the sound goes a little 'lifeless". so I tend to leave it pretty much full on & hit a stomp box for volume boost for solos. I may upgrade the pots switch & wiring soon & see of that helps.

Hope this has been of some use to you - good luck!

(I found a similar item HERE on eBay, though it seems about 50% overpriced compared to prices in Hong Kong).

[This message was edited by cybercat on August 21, 2003 at 07:26 AM.]

Thanks cybercat.
that makes a great deal of sense.

59s smooth as butter

quote:

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Originally posted by cybercat:
Unfortunately I find when I turn it down a ways, the sound goes a little 'lifeless".

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that's because the newer les pauls are wired different than the old ones. if you do a search for "50's wiring" at the les paul forum you can find more info.

quote:

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Originally posted by toneblender:

quote:

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Originally posted by cybercat:
Unfortunately I find when I turn it down a ways, the sound goes a little 'lifeless".

---

that's because the newer les pauls are wired different than the old ones. if you do a search for "50's wiring" at the les paul forum you can find more info.

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Howdy, new to the forum and thought I would throw in on this thread first

If I am not mistaken, the 50's mod is basically the following minus the split switch:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/support/schematics/2hum_2vol_2tone_3way-w-spl.html

sub the cap values of your choosing.

Hi k4df4l,

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for your post, yes I'd seen the scematics on Seymour's site. Thanks to Toneblender's advice, I got a lot of info and various schematics on the Les Paul Forum, which seems full of great tips & tricks.

Acting on instinct & what I saw there, I sold the Epi (though it was a pretty good guitar) and got a rather well-used 1981 Tokai "Love Rock" (1957 cherry-top Les Paul 'replica') instead (maybe ex-Joe Walsh? see pics), already corrrectly wired by Tokai with the 50's wiring (albeit in a circuit board).
More pics on my homepage

HERE

I was going to rip the board out & do a re-wire but my luthier friend said a very resounding "NO!" - apparently the Nobels brand pots Tokai used back in '81 (which are completely soldered into the board) are far superior to currently easily-available pots like CTS, Alpha, Dimarzio etc. I changed the p'ups to Lindy Fralins and switched out the cheap capacitors for a NOS Sprague 'Vitamin Q' .01 cap on the neck p'up, and a Hovland Musicap .022 on the bridge, and it really sounds killer now - the neck is the sweetest I've heard, and the bridge really growls!

Have already done 3 gigs with it - a couple of rowdy bars & the Conrad hotel, & on each one other players came up & asked what the hell it was, it was sounding so good.

Thanks for the welcome!

Congrats on the new guitar...I have heard great things about the Tokais but never have seen one in person. Nothing like that new guitar feeling

Thanks k4df4l - well it's not eactly new, - 22 years old to be exact! - but it's new to me. ...& Yes, I can't put it down.

I A-B'd the Tokai Love Rock with several Gibson Les Paul Standards in the local dealership when I went in to get a few parts last week, and I could hardly believe it was easily, unmistakeably, better than all the 2-dozen plus Gibson Les Pauls I played, including a US$4,000 "Historic" model. The Gibsons had rough fret ends, intonation problems, notes flatting out when you bent high on ther neck (needed fret crowning/dressing, if not a re-fret!), very uneven string balance (top string 1/2 the volume of the others despite the pole-piece being unscrewed so much it foulded the string) ALL but the Historic had dead-sounding, heavy, clunky, zinc stop tail-pieces (though the Historic had the correct 'featherweight' aluminium one, like the Tokai). Volume & tone pots in all the other Gibsons were incorrect - cheap 300k ones as opposed to the correct 500k Gibson used in the 50's/60's (again, only the US$4,000 the historic had the correct value, like the Tokai) and they were wired with the tone cap going to the end lug on the pots instead of - correctly - to the middle lug, as on 50's Gibsons (& the Tokai, of course...) so they all got very 'muddy' as soon as you used the controls on anything other than 10. The fret ends were not dressed into the binding like they are on the Tokai...

- But the main thing is that the Gibsons felt "dead" - the Tokai is SO vibrant, the one-piece mahogany body sustains beautifully and is very loud & toneful even UNplugged, the whole guitar feels alive in your hands, & vibrates for ages when you play a note. None of the Gibsons did this to anywhere near the same extent.

The salesman was pretty shocked at the differences too, - he phoned for the manager to come from another branch, & then they both played & examined my Tokai for around 30 minutes back & forth with the Historic (while arguing animatedly in Cantonese) before going off to find the Tokai website...

I'm sure it's not an isolated case. My Brother got a Tokai Strat back around '79, and it gave my genuine '64 Fender a run for its's money. Wonder how it plays now, 2 dozen years later?

More recently my friend Gregg from England started collecting Statocasters (he plays a bit, but I think it's more as an ivestment) he has 8, including a nice top-of-the range Cutom shop relic, a couple of MIJ ansd an MIM. Well, you can prolly guess what comes next: he got a 1980 Tokai "Strat' a few moths ago and he says hands down, it's the best one of the bunch, kills all the others including the US$2,500 relic... He's since decided to stop collecting Fenders and just collect vintage Tokai's.

A word of warning, however, before I have half the people on the forum rushing out to buy a Tokai: I've been told by numerous people (including Japanese) that there were major changes at Tokai in early 1982, and the guitars made after that are just not the same, not as nice, & generally not worth going after. The ones Stevie Ray Vaughan, Billy Gibbons & Joe Walsh have/had are all from the pre-1982 era. So if anyone does want to try a Tokai, I'd strongly reccomend only considering getting one from 1981 or earlier. Fortunately there are usually a couple of these on eBay at any given time, and the prices are extremely reasonable compared to 2nd-hand Fenders & Gibsons.

Hope some of this has been useful.

[This message was edited by cybercat on October 05, 2003 at 04:08 AM.]

Definitely the 59

Sound Clips

*Marshall 1970 100watt Super Lead*
Hot for Teacher(Seymour Duncan 59)stock specs
Unchained(Seymour Duncan JB)mod
Old 80's original(Ibanez Artist)mod
Blues Jam(Seymour Duncan JB)mod
80's Original(Seymour Duncan JB)mod
*Marshall 1959slp Plexi Reissue*(stock)
Fools(Ibanez Artist)
Mean Street(Ibanez Artist)
*5150combo*
Unchained "new version"(Seymour Duncan 59)
Panama(Seymour Duncan 59)
You really got me(Seymour Duncan 59)
Little Guitars 'fool around mix'(Ibanez Artist)
Demo solo(1980 Ibanez Artist)

A guy named Jim Wagner makes a fantastic set of pickups that are really good for ,70s style rock, hard rock, slide, etc.
The guy has all kinds of references at the LPF on those particular pups. The specs suggest they are really hot, but will really fool ya when you fire them up. You would expect them to be like a SD Super Distortion, but are very smooth, creamy, great sustain, etc ( I could go on forever, they are excellent pickups).More like a bumped-up PAF with some balls.

DaveF