Adding a dot to any note increases the original notes value by 1/2 again as much. So, a 'dotted' 1/8 lasts an 1/8 + 1/16. Or three 16th notes. Usually grouped as "dotted 1/8 and 1/16"
An 1/8 triplet is usually in a group of three ... "one trip let, two trip let, three trip let, four trip let.
Playing a group of 1/8 note triplets with the middle one missing is "similar" to the dotted 1/8 with 1/16 figure, but definitely not the same.
OK, Thanks! I was pretty sure they were different, but I didn't realize the difference would be that big. I couldn't find any of my theory books to save my life at the moment. Thanks again!
I suppose it might be worth adding that a lot of jazz scores can be unclear. 8th notes written "straight" are meant to be swung which puts them somewhere in between a dotted 8th and a 8th note triplet with the 2nd one missing. You'd have to get into some pretty deep polyrhyms to figure out why its that way, but the long and the short of it is that how much "swing" is a matter of style. Almost no jazz/bop drummer would see a written dotted 8th note ride pattern and play it straight. But, thats additional to Ken's spot on answer. (Hope it isnt' confusing)
Posts: 851 | Location: New York, NY | Registered: August 03, 2003
One of the 'trickiest' things about explaining or teaching jazz - if that's even really possible - is trying to explain that "swing" is era and regionally specific. In fact I'd even go as far as to say that swing is "jazz great" specific. As in Count Basie swings one way and Duke Ellington another - how they approach their 1/8 notes. coltrane and Cannonball - same thing. And - and this is the toughest part - as your tempo increases your 'jazz' 1/8 notes (three 1/8th triplets with the middle one missing) start to straighten out. Also I notice that the emphasis in a slower to medium tempo is on the 2nd 1/8th whereas it shifts to the 1st 1/8th on fast tempos or, just evens out completely, ie; no emphasis.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the original question anymore. Sorry dk_ace.
Originally posted by klasaine: One of the 'trickiest' things about explaining or teaching jazz - if that's even really possible - is trying to explain that "swing" is era and regionally specific. In fact I'd even go as far as to say that swing is "jazz great" specific. As in Count Basie swings one way and Duke Ellington another - how they approach their 1/8 notes. coltrane and Cannonball - same thing. And - and this is the toughest part - as your tempo increases your 'jazz' 1/8 notes (three 1/8th triplets with the middle one missing) start to straighten out. Also I notice that the emphasis in a slower to medium tempo is on the 2nd 1/8th whereas it shifts to the 1st 1/8th on fast tempos or, just evens out completely, ie; no emphasis.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the original question anymore. Sorry dk_ace.
Exactly. I only mentioned it because I was thinking the poor guy would go "great, I understand now" and then follow a score and get totally baffled. I couldn't agree more that its person specific. I'd even go further and point out that when you listen REAL close you can even catch the ones who stay in clave to boot. I don't mean in Afro-Cuban, I mean in bop. John Riley (drummer here in NY) has one of the greatest ride patterns I've ever heard in any era and you can definitely hear which side of the clave he's feeling. Ditto with Elvin Jones, Philly Joe Jones, etc. This is great stuff and getting further away from the question, but your first answer hit it on the head anyway, no sense missing the chance to expand the parameters.
Posts: 851 | Location: New York, NY | Registered: August 03, 2003
Originally posted by rsmeets: i have john riley's book on bop drumming- great book for those interested..
rhythm is the most important thing in music. everything else is just notes.
All 3 of his books are great. There's also a follow up to "Bop Drumming" called "Beyond Bop Drumming" and "The Jazz Drummer's Workshop". John's a really great guy and a serious expert. I have a couple lessons coming up with him in May and I can't wait. I know its going to be serious.
Posts: 851 | Location: New York, NY | Registered: August 03, 2003
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