Cool site M'Dude, thanks. I don't think Becker & Fagan are easily categorized...

Those guys are big fans of polychords. Good stuff here:

http://www.guitarsite.com/chords3.htm#polychords

I've seen the intro to "Josie" played about a gazillion different ways...

Copying & pasting tablature NEVER lines up right, or else I would've posted the tab from the site for comparison - but here's the way I play it -

-------------------------------------
---3--2-----0----3--2----------------
---------3--------------3-----2-------
-2----4--1--2--2----4--1--4--0-------
---------------------------2----------
-------------------------------------

--------------0--5--2--3-------------
-----------0--1--5--3--6-------------
---2-1-0------2--3--2--5-------------
-2-------4----3--4--x--3-------------
--------------x--x--x--x-------------
--------------1--2--3--4-------------

Either will work obviously. I'm partial to my version because it takes more advantage of open strings, puts some of the notes on skinnier strings, & rings a bit more. Hybrid picking gets the pianistic vibe. The last four chords have the cool chromatic move in the bass, & I have to use the thumb to get the bass on several of those voicings. The last two voicings (D/G - Fsus2/Ab) are basically a hip way to play G maj7 to Ab maj7.

Thanks so much C-man. Really like your way for the song. Have you ever thought about putting out training material in a comercial way - book or video dvd. If I'm not mistaken, you are a guitar teacher? Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey MD, yeah, I'm real interested in pursuing that angle. Do you think there's any particular voids in music instruction that need to be tapped?

"Do you think there's any particular voids in music instruction that need to be tapped?"

Why yes. I think that a DVD set consisting of taking a novice to an intermidiate level would be great. Consisting of teaching to read music, modes,etc. Major styles of music could be covered. While it would be far from inexpensive, taking lessons in the modern day from teacher as you know can get pricey depending on the city. What would be a plus is to many people that don't have access or time to a teacher. They can study any time of day or nite. I remember a series online where a guy would stream a 30 minute lesson on playing rock and blues. Was quite nice and he was going to go subscription. I believe he was waiting for corporate funding from I beleive Guitar Center. That was more than a year ago. I don't think that is going to happen, but is an idea that I can see growing as more high bandwidth becomes the norm. I'm on Comcast and I average over 2 meg per second. Streaming video is easy. Its getting people to subscribe to with Visa payments that is the tricky part.

MD, that's some seriously good food for thought. Thanks man, the gears are turning.

.

Good luck, hope you can find deep pockets for some major funding Corleone. BTW, can you recommend any amps under $1500 for some Steely Dan wankage? I know a Dumble would be cool, but not possible. Currently doing a good job with my Pod XT, but that is just into headphones. Thanks....

Most of the "classic" 'Dan tracks were recorded with a blackface princeton or deluxe. A re-issue "Deluxe" you can get for around $800.00. You can find something vintage, used, for between $1200 and $1500. I cover a fair amount of S.Dan tunes and like using my Dr.Z Mazerati, (used for $750.00) with a homemade 2-10 cab. Or I'll use a blackface bassman that I got in trade for $250.00 worth of my session rate.

Thanks K., for some reason I always equate Larry Carlton with a Dumble. For sure others have played on the albums. Why do I think of Walter Becker as a sideman when he is half the team. Anyway, have you ever heard an Allen amp live. Read a number of good things about them and to get a new amp that delivers a great blackface sound would be nice. I have not even seen a link to a(Allen) clip.... have you?

Carlton didn't play a Dumble until way after the steely dan days, and all the other tones I can think of on those records I associate with some type of Fender amp. I've never heard an Allen amp. You could do a search here as others have mentioned them in the past. There are a ton of really good Fender inspired amps out there - Carr comes to mind - but it may be difficult to find one in your price range.

Again, thanks K. I guess thats good news a Dumble is not really required to nail the sound. Allen amps is making a Princeton Reverb clone, so at home usage would probably be nice as well. PR's have really gone up in price, so maybe a new one would be nice. I need to call Allen for a over the phone demo.... let you guys know if he can do it for me.

Checking on Allen PR clone prices and for a 1x12 its over 1300. I think I would save a few more bucks and get his Vibrolux clone. Not sure but I think at 1700, he is basically matching the market for a blackface amp. Oh well, not pulling any purchases yet. Probably will try to hunt down a clean silverface vibrolux.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MajorDude:
Probably will try to hunt down a clean silverface vibrolux.

---

*Probably* a good bet. Any competent tech should be able to "blackface" a SF PTP Fender for a reasonable fee. Just play a bunch - the OT's on old Fenders vary wildly, & "vintage" speakers can either be 'broken in' or on their last leg... cap job might be in order as well. But a good one is... well, a good one.

You know, I have seen pictures of the last tour. WB and another guitar player. One played a Guytron and Becker played a Bogner. Go figure........ figure that would be too loud for evryday use in my basement.LOL

I worked out the following from transcribing Wayne Shorter many years ago. For playing over Maj7 chords miss out the 4th note of a major scale and start the scale on the 7th. So, in the key of C playing over a CMaj7 start on a B and miss out all Fs. Treat the tonic as though it were a passing note, either that or resolve it onto the 7th.

You end up with a Hexatonic Scale that sounds very melodic on its own. It can be used in other ways too, just sub it in to play over minor chords etc.

Cool Longfuse. I usually throw F# in there which makes it either lydian or phrygian but I like your idea of leaving the F's out all together. It gives it a more 'open' sound. Alot of horn players, whenever they see a major or maj.7th chord however it's functioning, think triadically a 5th above. Also a nice open, non-resolving sound.

A nice thing to do is use the scale over a Imaj7 to IV7 progression. Play the same idea over both chords but flatten the 3rd of the scale for the IV7. So, in key of C you have CMaj7 to F7 and play the same idea but use Eflats instead of Es over the F7. You get that lovely sharp11 sound.

Same thing works for Amin7 to F7 in the key of C and the same chords in the key of G (II to flat VIIx progression, which crops up a lot in standards).

The basic scale by itself subs in nicely for VI and III chords.

Yeah man, cool. Turns it into a C mel. min. thing which I use probably way too much over IV and VI dominant chords. I never really thought about it in your way, ie; losing the 4th. Thanks!

quote:

For playing over Maj7 chords miss out the 4th note of a major scale and start the scale on the 7th. So, in the key of C playing over a CMaj7 start on a B and miss out all Fs. Treat the tonic as though it were a passing note, either that or resolve it onto the 7th. You end up with a Hexatonic Scale that sounds very melodic on its own. It can be used in other ways too, just sub it in to play over minor chords etc.

quote:

I usually throw F# in there which makes it either lydian or phrygian but I like your idea of leaving the F's out all together. It gives it a more 'open' sound.

You can do both by playing the minor pentatonic a half step below the root. For instance play B minor pentatonic over a Cmaj7 chord. Instant unresolved lydian sound due to the #4 and lack of the root note (7, 2/9, 3, #4/#11, 6/13). No new fingerings to learn. Scofield uses this quite a bit I believe.

one thing that i would suggest is to listen to more jazz for a while to open up your hearing naturally- it might sound silly or obvious, but some serious listening can go a long way... as for the technical aspect, corleone has some great ideas and there are many books that talk about those kinds of things- i would recommend these:

if you can read music-
The Advancing Guitarist (Mick Goodrick)- this book is amazing and will open you up in all kinds of ways (not a pattern book though)...
All of the David Baker books on jazz improv are pretty straight-forward and easily digested
Repository of Scales and Melodic Patterns (Yusef Lateef)- very sick book.

If you are looking for tab based books:

Joe Diorio Books on Mel Bay- these are good and are very modern sounding (but also heavily pentatonic based)- easily digested too

Vic Juris book - advanced harmony for guitar- this is a very good chord book (hence lots of new arpeggios on adjacent strings) very solid but a lot of do it yourself in this one... opened up visualization of the fretboard for me..

there are tons of other good books too, these are a good starting point (IMO)..

the thing you have to remember about playing jazz-like or jazz-rock is to swing the notes rhythmically (and use some triplets) and to get outside of the pentatonic box- and you'll need to learn about other scales than the major scale...

(for later on...)
Steely Dan and others constantly make use of the melodic minor scale (12b34567), the harmonic minor scale (12b345b67), whole tone (all whole steps), and Diminished scales (alternating whole/half steps or vice versa), as well as a few other basic scales... the big ones, are melodic minor (which contains the maj7#5 chord, the altered dominant, the dom7#11 among others) and harmonic minor.. it's a lot to digest so take it one step at a time... good luck..

rob

ps. dont forget about the jamey aebersold collection of stuff.. there is a lot of good information there with play alongs.. i just don't think any of it is tab based..