Hey guys. I've been playing guitar now for somewhere around 14 years or so and have been in a rut for many a year. I was playing mostly punk rock, 4-5 chord stuff with rock n roll leads, but never really knew what I was doing. Just tried stuff out till it sounded right and could memorize stuff pretty easily.

Lately I've been playing more acoustic stuff and some mandolin and realize that I don't have a clue as to whats going on. Even when I play rock stuff on the electric I keep going back to the same old things. Its become impossible to write anything new as well. I figure if I began to learn some theory I could begin to tie in everything that I do know and start to really play music and not just rehash the same progressions over and over.

What I do know: I can usually play almost anything (other than thrashy stuff) just fine by ear. I know the basic chords and bar chords. I am vaguely familiar with the fingerboard (I am currently working on this). I can read notation although very slowly (working on this as well). I can play fine in a band situation with others either by following someones fingers or knowing which chords are being used.

I don't know scales enough to actually use them in lead work - I have my own box patterns that I've figured out over the years on my own and would like to move away from this.

I have basically survived by learning things by ear and experimenting until things sound good to me. I can play fine as far as actual performing goes and make it sound good - I just am clueless as to the hows and whys.

I guess I'm looking for some input on where to start, what to focus on first and any suggested reading materials that might aid me in this quest for understanding. Styles would be mostly rock, folk and irish trad stuff, maybe a little bit of easy classical. I think I'd like to move up from being a basic guitar player into more of a well rounded musician.

Thanks for any and all help.

Forget the bit about which styles I'm looking to play. I just want to begin to understand music in general and how to apply it to the guitar. I think style may be somewhat irrelevant to what I really want to learn.

So - Can anyone recommended some good books, links etc on learning basic theory?

Thanks.

The 1st thing to do would be to browse through the "lessons" section here and just find some stuff that you think looks/sounds interesting.

The 'books/videos' thread
'A' chord thread
Theory 101 thread.

There's so much here.

If you'd like, I'd be more than happy to write down a few starter lessons to give you something to gnaw on and mail it to you. I'm a guitar teacher of a number of years now and I've come to a healthy balance between teaching what you need to know and showing you cool ways to use what you already know. Let me know if you're down, or if you're anywhere near Austin Texas just stop by and bring some beer. I'll learn ya good.

hey- remember that that box is part of it too! use that as your starting point and understand how it works- then you can learn to fill in chords and color tones around it.. use what you got and build build build... the blues box is 1, b3, 4, 5 b7 of scale tones.. all you need is the 2,3, and 6 and some basic chord theory!

What are you 'listening' too these days?

I'll check out that theory 101 thread. Not sure why I didn't search for something like that yet - guess I'm used to seeing more specific threads on one particular area.

Bigtop - I'd take you up on your offer, but I'm up in chilly MN. Never been to Texas. If you truly don't mind mailing something out (either electronic or post office) I'd gladly accept.

I'm not listening to as much as I used to these days, been busy with work and taking care of a teething baby girl. I would have to say my listening interests more recently have been the Chieftains, Flogging Molly and Solas (Irish stuff), rock stuff has been all over - I usually get to listen to the local rock station at work (not into modern rock) or talk radio. I usually enjoy Minnesota Public Radio's variety of stuff more than whats on commercial radio.

I think I'm just looking for something to keep me playing right now - since my daughter came I haven't had anywhere near as much time just to enjoy the guitar. And it doesn't help that the amp stays off when shes sleeping. More acoustic these days. I figure I can use the quieter time to start learning a bit about making music and learning the neck real well. I should also mention that I've always been more of a rhythm guy.

I just don't know where I should start - the amount of theory that I don't know is overwhelming.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Theory and just music in general has no 'end game'. So don't worry about how much you don't know and just start with a little bit at a time and try to apply it.
The reason I asked about the listening is because that's really the 1st step in actually learning something new. You gotta want to play something different that you've heard a little bit of.
If you're into the celtic thing you might dig this ... www.myspace.com/standeasy
It's a celtic rock band I play with. Focused on the 'rock' but with bagpipes and a lot of traditional stuff tweaked to fit in modern style tunes.

Hey bwinger,

Can you name any note on the fretboard, if needed?

Do you know the Major Scale Pattern?

It's a pattern of Whole Steps (2 Frets apart), and Half Steps (1 fret apart).

EX:

E to F is a H (Half Step)

F to G is a W (Whole Step)

The Major Scale Pattern is pretty much the basics of Music Theory. Here it is:

W W H W W W H

So, the notes of a "C Major Scale" are:

C D E F G A B C

The first note, is the Root, or Tonic note. Some people call it the "Keynote".

The 8th. note, is an Octave of the first note.

The notes of a "G Major Scale" are:

G A B C D E F# G

See the pattern?

Swain - yes I'm familiar with the major scale pattern and whole and half steps. The actual notes on the neck I'm "okay" with, just not fast enough in my head to really know which note I'm playing in real time.

Maybe I should have given a bit more background info. I'm mostly self taught, although I have read enough stuff on my own to know the very basic of basics.

I think I'm just looking for something I can refer to when I want to learn something new, maybe something with a "table of contents" to show me a logical order of learning.

What I meant by being "overwhelmed by what I don't know" is that 1. I'm not actually sure of the extent of what I do know, 2. I'm not sure what I should know (well, I really should learn a whole lot more of the neck).

I'm starting to think I should just take some lessons and have a teacher show me where I'm at and what the next step is. Anyone know of a good teacher in Minnesota?

Thanks again for all the help. I really do appreciate it.

I think an instructor is a GREAT idea. One on one instruction and interaction, is where it's at!

For books, etc. I'd suggest "The Guitar Cookbook" by Jesse Gress as a general reference. It's not so much a structured method, but it does have a lot of short chapters on different aspects of guitar based music theory and application.


Do you feel comfortable with Chord Scales, and Diatonic Harmony? Those are two more of the "building blocks" of Music Theory. Sorry if I ask too many questions. I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of where you're at. And generally, even very complex pieces of Theory can be found in re-examining the Fundamentals of it all.

One thing I've found very useful (and very interesting), is reading about my favorite players' favorite players, and influences. Then I would find their influences. And just keep going back, as far as possible.
And as I traced the history of my favs, I would learn the evolution of where it came from.
When I heard about Modes, I had to start reading up on those. Where did they come from? Why did so many Jazz players lean so heavily on Dorian? etc. Where did Robert Johnson learn to play?
That kind of stuff is fascinating, to me. And it really opened up a lot of doors.

bwinger,

How's the "search" going?

The search has slowed, at least on guitar. I have noticed that I'm just too set in my ways to really start over with learning everything that I should have on guitar. I really like just playing and jamming on the 6 string.

I HAVE started spending more time learning to read notation for the mandolin. I'm thinking I'll hone my musical skills on that instrument and maybe later begin to apply it with guitar tuning. It seems easier and much less frustrating on an instrument that I don't know nearly as well. Plus the mandolin seems like a natural melody instrument with the tuning in 5ths vs guitar.

For guitar I will put some time into learning new chords and chord theory for strumming some acoustic stuff and singing to the baby. For the loud electric rock stuff, I think I've plateau'ed and don't really care to learn more theory than I already do right now. Like I said earlier - I don't have a problem "playing," I certainly don't sound anywhere near a beginner, I just don't know all the ins and outs of whats going on musically.

I think as I learn the mandolin (and theory) the transfer of knowledge to guitar will come easily. Thanks for all the help!

That's a cool idea! Whenever I learn a little of a new instrument, it really does help my "all around" knowledge and playing. The Banjo has been my most recent new instrument to tackle.

Let me know how the Mandolin goes, for you. As that's probably my next project, too.


Happy Hunting!

I should have thought of this before!

You would probably really benefit from the Doug Doppler DVD package. It's really good. Awhile ago, I posted some info on it here on the LESSONS Forum.