A pretty cool thread. Post #10 is really good. I haven't gotten through all of it, yet. But, it seemed kind of related to the "m7b5 Gold" thread.

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?s=5136f0c...c47840d74553&t=14335

Good to know I'm not completely blowing smoke out my ass.
Nice to hear it from the man himself.

Yeah, your similar ideas really make sense to me. I had started with moving Pentatonics around, as this was all I knew. So, the idea of using "Forms" and lines, makes total sense to me.

I'm going to keep working on some of this stuff.

And, I've got a technique I use, I call the "Lick Factory". It helps me generate more lines and melodies, etc. It's directly related to this type of concept.

I'll post something on it, soon. Whenever I teach it to a student who actually practices, they usually find it to be pretty udeful.

And, I'll have to tell you guys about my friend who took some private lessons with Pat. WHEW! Pretty funny.

You gotta dig through a 'fucking' lot of pages (105 of them) but there are some absolute gems in there.

his whole theory of relating everything to the diminished scale/chords is pretty interesting..

Yeah, he does that with Augmented chords, too. Both Aug. and Dim. are symmetrical. So, he treats them as "Parent" forms.

EX: Gdim.7 = G Bb Db E

Lower any of the 4 notes in the "Parent" Gdim.7 chord, and that new note becomes the Root of a Dom.7 chord.

So, Gdim.7 yields 4 different Dom.7 chords.

Gb7 A7 C7 Eb7



EX: G+ = G B D#

Raise any of the 3 notes in the "Parent" G+ chord, and that note becomes the Root of a Minor Chord (Triad).

So, G+ yields 3 different Minor chords.

Abm Cm Em

Lower any note of the "Parent" G+ chord, and that note becomes the 5th. of a Major chord (Triad).

So, G+ can yield 3 Major chords.

B Eb(D#) G


There's alot of cool mathematical ideas in Pat's world. Check out his "Nature Of The Guitar" diagrams, on his website.

really though, it's just a system to be able to access information faster.. he's looking for the shortest routes from points A to B musically speaking- the less he has to think about theory, the more he can think about creating... kurt rosenwinkel's system is very much based on the same kind of access to information... interesting stuff for sure..

Yeah, I think you're right about that. All of Pat's stuff seems to come from a real practical place. It's just that the places he takes stuff, is pretty out there. LOL

I have always found visualization and a little organization, to really help me grasp new concepts. And, I think helps me to better understand Pat's ideas. The real problem as I see it, is playing and improvising like Pat! WHEW!