This will sound elementary to some of you guys I'm sure, but every time I play a solo in a major scale, it comes off sounding goofy. I'm not formally trained in music so I've played "by ear" since I started. I never had lessons so I figured out scales by using the do-ray-me-fah-so-la-t-do method. I'm just finding that my solos tend to resemble do-ray-me-fah-so-la-t-do in that they're boring and, well, goofy sounding. I can wail in minor and pentatonics, but I can't seem to nail anything in major keys. Maybe it's the scale patterns I've grown accustomed to? Please help!

Yeah, sometimes it does seem like minor and dominant tonalities draw cool stuff out of you more naturally. Here's our roadmap for the key of C, the number is the name of the iterval:

C = 1
D = 2
E = 3
F = 4
G = 5
A = 6
B = 7

For starters, get your fingers doing different things, by using "melodic sequences". These can sound clinical and mechanical for awhile, but you might be surprised how much they can spice up your improvisations when mixed in with your favorite phrases. Here's a few, and refer to the numbers above for the actual notes:

1234
2345
3456
4567
etc., etc. ...

OR

1324
3546
5761 ("1", at this point being the octave)
etc., etc. ...

Try these sequences ascending and descending, with both a "four" feel and a "triplet" feel. Oh yeah, and get a metronome... There are tons and tons of these sequences, some built on arpeggios, some with polrhythms, etc. I recommend doing a search for a book on melodic sequences.

Then, get your ears into the game. This is where "ear training" comes into play. Get to the point where you not only know where a major third or major seventh interval fall on your guitar, but to the point where you can sing them (and the other intervals, of course) over the tonic note(C in this case). What's the benefit of this? Well, you want your ears to be the boss of your fingers, and not just let your fingers fall back into familiar patterns ( you know, the "I sound like I'm running a bunch of scales" syndrome). The different intervals can be thought of as being "colors". Get to know them individually, and not just as part of a scale. And know what "color" you are wanting to end or begin your melodic phrase with. Remember, your ears are the boss. Your fingers are just the laborers trying to get the job done.

You can also look at using intervals above the octave, such as 9th's and 10th's. A 9th would be a 2nd (+ an octave); A 10th would be a 3rd (+ an octave). It's just numbers - any intervals above the octave will just have 7 added to it (i.e. - a 13th = major 6th above the octave.)

To throw one "outside" tonality into the mix-

Check out the #11th (F# above the octave). I won't dive into that - just check it out, get to know it, and your ears will let you know when it *works*...

And to get your fingers AND your ears working overtime...

Try "intervallic string skips". Instead of running your scales in logical order, try creating phrases with 5ths, 7th's, 9th's, etc.

And here's the part where you'll think I'm high...

Got more than one guitar? Try having one sitting around without the 5th, 3rd, and 1st strings on it and improvise with that. I'm not kidding...

Round up some tunes or jam tracks that have a static major tonality which have a cool groove, turn your brain off, and see where your ears tell your fingers to go...

Wow, thanks for the lesson Corleone! I think I do sometimes get into that slump of major scale solos just sounding like major scales. I'm not sure why. Although, I jammed last night and it did some stuff in major scales just to see what happened and it wasn't too bad. I finished setting up my LP and cranked my amp up with no effects and let my ears tell my hands where to go. Pretty satisfying... Either way, I will definitely digest your information and I really appreciate the time you took to post it. Thank you!

You can also "spice" up a major scale using some of the things you already know.Take that pentatonic scale and drop it down 4 frets from your key center (thats a minor 3rd).Example : C major progression = 'A' pentatonic at the 5th fret(actually this is a 'C' major pentatonic starting on an A note which makes it an A minor pentatonic - confusing?).Don't be afraid to throw in those "blues" note in the 'A' position(still in the key of C here),they'll add some color especially over F and G chords - the IV and V chords respectivly.Hope this helps.

You're welcome, BT.

These guys shared some great stuff.

The only things I'll add are:

Play the same minor pentatonics over a major chord progression, and you'll be surprised.

Also, and I hope this makes sense in typing, is something like this chromatic-pentatonic lick over, say, a G chord: G string-14th fret(bend a full step), B string-12th fret, 13th fret, 14th fret, 15th fret, high E string-12th fret. Use alternate picking, and think "swing feel". Use it over a swing, straight 4/4 rock beat, whatever. Do the lick and quickly cut off the last note...then quickly repeat it, etc. It gives a cool rhythmic excitement to a tune, and is a favorite lick of mine. Another thing that this lick works cool for is a very slow shuffle or 6/8 meter blues. Try it!! (just a small example)

Another thing you probably already know is to use both the major and minor pentatonic scales of a given key over the same progression. Works even better if the progression is more ambiguous, but works either way.

You can also keep your minor pentatonic positions and add to them. Add in the third, 6th and ninth and you can get a more major feel out of the same old minor pentatonic positions, depending which notes you lean on. This allows you to go back and forth between major and minor fairly easily with out having to reinvent the wheel.

Also, see if you can dig up some mixolydian stuff. It's just a major scale with a flatted 7th

Don't forget about an old favorite - borrowing licks from records. In the rock realm, The Allman Brothers and The Grateful Dead in particular were way into extended improvisations in major key tonalities. The modern "jam bands" have taken a lot of cues from those guys... This is a bit of a generalization, but you can probably look more to the Allmans for "licks", and to Garcia and The Dead for scale oriented stuff. You don't have to be a "fan" to reap benefits...

Another thing you can do is to record yourself "scat-singing" improvisations over chord progressions, and then learn to play on your instrument what you sang. Some benefits: You will most likely sing some stuff that you wouldn't naturally play on your guitar. You can only sing till you run out of breath, hence the term "phrasing". This is one reason that guitar players have emulated horn players for years - we're always striving for a more "vocal" approach. You don't have to have a guitar in hand to stretch your improv chops. When I drive around in my car, I often scat-sing to whatever music I'm listening to at the time. If you do it often enough, some of those phrases eventually creep into your playing. The first time that happened to me on a gig, it freaked me out. One word of caution about the scat-singing in your car thing - You might want to bring it to a halt before you get to a redlight - That is, unless you enjoy those looks from other motorists that indicate you're an idiot!

Scott Henderson tip-o-the-day:

play yer "normal" minor pentatonic "box", but starting on the 2nd of the major scale. This also works on the 3rd (Major) degree of the scale. Its a good way to mix up your Major phrasing. I've found it also helps deconstruct normal, minor, penta-box phrasing, as an added bonus.

Nightfly

Yeah, you can do both and way more, but the best thing is to use your ear. I know that sounds cliched and rudimentary, but it's really important. If you're playing with keyboards in the band, or bassists that like to embellish with 3rds and other intervals, though, it can make things more difficult in that realm because it's no longer ambiguous. It can still be done, but I recommend really practicing the 2 together and really getting used to the sound. That way you can hear where you'd "want to go" with it. As Corleone brought up, Scat is a GREAT way to get ear training and figure out where you're headed in terms of phrasing. That's because you can sing something you hear in your head and then figure out how to play it without 'letting your fingers do the talking first'. (common phrases won't dictate!) I know that sounds more like "sight singing" than "scat", but when you do this and then combine the singing with playing, as in scat, you'll really open doors.

I'm really glad Corleone brought up Scat, and can't recommend it highly enough.

The scat thing is a really cool idea! I'll have to try that for sure.
I have the same problem as Brownthingy that I'm not formally trained so I don't have an expansive knowledge of music. I never got into major scale because it reminded me of those happy, hillbilly country solo's that I'm not really crazy about. But as I get older I'm starting to realize that everything has it's place.
Great thread, great ideas

Lawrence D.

I'll have to try that scat thing as well. Telepicker mentioned common phrases taking over. That has been another problem. Hopefully this will help me nip it. It sounds so simple, I can't believe I didn't think of it. I REALLY appreciate the advice from everyone! You've been extremely helpful.

Knowing what scales to play is a very small part of becoming a good soloist. Sure, an E major scale would work for a song in E major, but (i know this sounds corny) you really gotta get in the groove of the song and trust your ear.

You might also try playing out your ideas in octaves. The added fullness of the octave can make a simple riff sound rich and soulful.

One great way to spice up your major scale solos is to learn the major scale all over the neck. There are, simply put, 5 patterns of the major scale on the neck. Pattern 2 and 5 are basically the same shape as the pentatonic. So you could play those two patterns and have that "at home" feel of the pentatonic and you can play a lot of the same licks. Pattern 2, known as the Dorian mode, and Pattern 5 being know as the Aelion mode (correct me if I'm wrong) or the natural minor scale.

Other cool tricks are:
-Playing in octaves
-Playing dimished notes. By that I mean playing a note, and go up at 3 fret intervals
-Arpeggios. Play the 1, 3, &5 notes of the scale (1,3, &5 are what make up the major chord) to get the major chord sound. You also add in the 7 but make sure to note where the chords in the progression and major 7th or dominants.
-Play in 4ths. Meaning start with 1-2-3-4 then 2-3-4-5, 3-4-5-6, and so on.

This subject, along with that of basic music theory, has come up so often with students that I decided to kill two birds with one stone, in the form of a little introduction, which I copied & pasted here. It's a rough draft that I still need to proofread... if anyone happens to read through this, & sees anything unclear or incorrect, please yell...

*************************************************************



Subject: Harmonizing the major scale, and a diatonic arpeggio exercise


There is a formula for buiding a major scale, which remains the same regardless of what note we choose to start with. It contains a series of whole steps and half steps. As relating to the fretboard on a guitar, think of a whole step being equal to the distance between the first & third frets; half step being equal to the distance between the first & second frets.

Key:

1 = whole step

1/2 = half step

Here's the formula:

1 - 1 - 1/2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1/2

In a major scale, the distance between the 3rd & 4th notes, and the 7th & "8th" (octave above original root) will always be half steps; all other distances will be whole steps.

C to D - (whole step, or 1)
D to E - (1)
E to F - (half step, or 1/2)
F to G - (1)
G to A - (1)
A to B - (1)
B to C - (1/2)


Harmonizing the major scale


The basic premise for Western harmony (in its strictest sense) is that it is built by stacking the 3rd intervals that are diatonic to (naturally occuring within) the designated Key Signature. One way to see how this works is to harmonize the major scale (or Ionian mode).

Due to the way the guitar is physically laid out, it is perhaps easier to visualize it on the piano keyboard; and easier still if we stick with the key of C, which is the only key which does not contain any sharps or flats (and therefore no black keys on the piano). Triads are built of three notes (the 1st or root, 3rd, & 5th intervals); in harmonizing the scale, we come up with four note chords (containing the diatonic 1,3,5,& 7 intervals).

So, if you start at C on the piano, and skip every other white key, you get C,E,G, & B. In relation to C being the root, you additionally have a major 3rd, a perfect 5th, and a major 7th. Together, the four notes spell a C major 7 chord. If you move to next note in the C scale (D), & use the same process, you come up with D,F,A, & C. Relative to D being 1 or root, the other intervals are b3,5, & b7. This spells a D minor 7 chord, which is the "II" (roman numeral two) chord in the key of C. If you complete the process for the 7 notes within the key of C, you arrive at the following:

I - C major 7
II - D minor 7
III - E minor 7
IV - F major 7
V - G7
VI - A minor 7
VII - B minor 7 flat 5

Regardless of what note you start with (key signature), the relationships within the harmonized major scale will always be the same.

The I & IV chords will always be major 7 (from the root - 1,3,5,7).

The II, III, & VI chords will always be minor 7 (1,b3,5,b7).

The V chord will always be dominant 7 (1,3,5,b7).

The VII chord will always be minor 7 flat 5 (1,b3,b5,b7).

Other modes can be harmonized in this fashion as well.


A Diatonic arpeggio exercise

One question that is often asked by improvising musicians is "how can I break out of the familiar patterns of major scales, that have started to sound boring to me?". This seems to be especially common among guitarists, as we often tend to visualize the instrument in terms of the shapes & patterns that we have become familiar with. There are scores of different 'answers' to the question, and really & truly, we are limited only to our imagination. So my disclaimer is that I'm merely scratching the surface here... That said, one way to shake things up a bit is to throw the scale (as a fingering pattern) out the window, and instead think of arpeggios within the scale. We're still technically talking "scale" here, as we're still using the same seven notes relative to the key - it's just a different way of organizing the notes.

The following is an exercise built on melodic sequences. In and of themselves, exercises sound like just that - boring and clinical. However they can (at least) provide new patterns for your fingers, and (at best) as combined with a strong ear, carry your playing to more harmonically interesting places. Bits & pieces of melodic sequences have a way of creeping into improvisations that can add some nice spice.

This particular exercise is in the key of C, in keeping with the above. It ascends on the I chord (1,3, & 5 of C), descends on the II chord (5,b3, & 1 of D), ascends on the III chord, descends on the IV chord, and so on. The diatonic 7th interval of each chord is not represented within the little three note sequences. This exercise naturally lends itself to a "triplet" feel, but try it with a "four" feel, as well.

E--------------------------------------
B--------------------------------------
G--------------------------------------
D-----------7-------------9--10--7-----
A-----7--10---8-----7--10-----------8--
E---8-----------10---------------------

E-------------------------------------
B-----------------------------8-------
G--------7--9-----------7--10---9-----
D------9------10--7---9-----------10--
A---10--------------------------------
E-------------------------------------

E------------7-----------8--10--7---
B---------10---8-------10--------8--
G---7--10--------9---10-------------
D-----------------------------------
A-----------------------------------
E-----------------------------------


E-------7--8------------------7------
B-----8------10------------10---8----
G---9-----------10---7--10--------9--
D------------------------------------
A------------------------------------
E------------------------------------

E----------------------------------
B--------8--10-----------------8-------
G------9-------10--7-----7--10---9-----
D---10-----------------9-----------10--
A--------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------

E----------------------------------
B-------------------------7--9-----
G---------9--10--7-------9----10---
D---7--10----------9---10-------7--
A----------------------------------
E----------------------------------

E-------------------------------------
B-------------------------------------
G-----------7-------------------------
D-----7--10---9-----------9--10--7----
A---8-----------10---7--10---------8--
E-------------------------------------

E-------------------------------------
B-------------------------------------
G-------------------------------------
D------7--9---------------------------
A-----8----10--7----------------------
E---10-------------8------------------

Just want to thank you Corleone for the lessons you have posted here in the Lessons section. I am trying to transform myself from a Michael Schenker type player to a more Steely Dan jazzy type. While I still love the style of Schenker, I can't see me doing it and want to learn more. Any other tips, book recommends, etc. would be sweet. Rock on, er, I mean jazz on. LOL

Hi MajorDude. Seems the grass is always greener, but somebody's still gotta mow it... I'd love to have a bit of Michael Schenker in my playing! As for further recommendations, there's a vast wealth of info & reference out there, & some of it is hyper-specific... what you might do is narrow down what you want to focus on, & throw it at us... if I'm not qualified to help you, maybe klasaine, Richard Groff, or the few other folks that visit this section of the forum will have some ideas... I don't mean to put those folks on the spot, but hopefully they'll take it as a compliment. In the meantime, have a look at the following site & see if you find anything interesting-

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-chords.html

Thanks Corleone, that site you posted should help. I have tried this place - http://www.jmdl.com/howard/steelydan/tab.html - for SD tabs. I have played for over 16 years and never learned to read. So now its time to pony up and at least learn to sight read chords. As far as Schenker, his chords aren't nothing major, its the soloing people pay to see. Go for a Aoeleon style to put you in his ballpark. Nothing specific for Steely Dan, just the style its in. Does it even have a name for that style? Swing Jazz? R&B? What would you guys call it. For what its worth I find Donald Fagan's solo stuff very good AND similar to SD.
Thanks again....